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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6878875" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'm not sure I follow this.Two examples from 4e:Come and Get It: the goons charge the Conan-esque (or Jet Li-esque) fighter, who cuts them down as they come adjacent. That looks like a combat rule that has been influenced by the assumed story.Valiant Smite: the paladin becomes more likely to hit the more foes surround him/her. That also looks like a combat rule that has been influenced by the assumed story.If an instance of &quot;assumed story&quot; in 5e is Fireball as a signature spell, I'm not sure how 4e differs - classes had signature moves, and signature orientations more generally (in virtue of &quot;role&quot; mechanics, preferred stats, etc).Again, this doesn't fit with my experience with 4e - each class entry in the PHB, for instance, has an outline of the class's typical outlook(s), a discussion of how members of that class relate to various gods and are found among various races, etc. And each race entry has 3 vignettes illustrating how a member of that race might become an adventurer of some class or other, with some goal/focus or other.I'm not sure exactly what distinction you are drawing between a PC's role and what a PC can do - &quot;role&quot; is a word that overlaps in meaning with words like &quot;office&quot;, &quot;function&quot;, &quot;position&quot; etc, which are all about what a person does, or is permitted/expected to do. But anyway, the 5e classes seem to me to be set out in ways quite similar to 4e ones - proficiency lists (for amour, weapons and skills), save proficiencies (replacing defence bonuses), and then lists of abilities by level.What is innovative in 5e (from the D&amp;D perspective - not from the perspective of RPGing more genrally) is the personality/inspiration system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6878875, member: 42582"] I'm not sure I follow this. Two examples from 4e: Come and Get It: the goons charge the Conan-esque (or Jet Li-esque) fighter, who cuts them down as they come adjacent. That looks like a combat rule that has been influenced by the assumed story. Valiant Smite: the paladin becomes more likely to hit the more foes surround him/her. That also looks like a combat rule that has been influenced by the assumed story. If an instance of "assumed story" in 5e is Fireball as a signature spell, I'm not sure how 4e differs - classes had signature moves, and signature orientations more generally (in virtue of "role" mechanics, preferred stats, etc). Again, this doesn't fit with my experience with 4e - each class entry in the PHB, for instance, has an outline of the class's typical outlook(s), a discussion of how members of that class relate to various gods and are found among various races, etc. And each race entry has 3 vignettes illustrating how a member of that race might become an adventurer of some class or other, with some goal/focus or other. I'm not sure exactly what distinction you are drawing between a PC's role and what a PC can do - "role" is a word that overlaps in meaning with words like "office", "function", "position" etc, which are all about what a person does, or is permitted/expected to do. But anyway, the 5e classes seem to me to be set out in ways quite similar to 4e ones - proficiency lists (for amour, weapons and skills), save proficiencies (replacing defence bonuses), and then lists of abilities by level. What is innovative in 5e (from the D&D perspective - not from the perspective of RPGing more genrally) is the personality/inspiration system. [/QUOTE]

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