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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6879349" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>The latter was the way 5e went, if it was acceptable then, why not now?</p><p></p><p>Like the 5MWD that often leads to it, it's one of those things clearly a potential issue based on the rules, but that you can always find an anecdote to confirm or deny. In 5e you can always toss the rules aside, though, so just because the rule clearly point to a given stumbling block doesn't mean any given DM will actually stumble over it.</p><p></p><p>More resources are forthcoming as you level. It's not quite like 3e where your lower level slots become useful only for utility & buffing (it's close, /damaging/ spells cast with low level slots become irrelevant pretty quickly, but save DCs are based on your caster stat + prof, not spell/slot level).</p><p></p><p>Very much like that. ;P </p><p></p><p>You've clearly never been a consultant. Yeah, the book gives you some useful information, but it's up to you to decide what needs to be done and how to proceed to complete the job successfully. </p><p></p><p>You will get some feedback: players who are sleeping, playing on their mobile devices, foaming at the mouth, or calling in sick are subtle clues...</p><p></p><p>Videos of burning rulebooks and C&D orders aside, that's exactly right. You can always run a game how you want. If there are players interested in playing that way. </p><p></p><p>A lot of players, though, are interested in playing a specific game - D&D - not in playing it a specific way. So a D&D that makes it painfully obvious that they can't play it without a DM issuing rulings is a D&D you can run with a great deal more ad hoc latitude than a D&D that gives the players clear, unequivocal rules and options - let alone one that has a rabid fan base that decries house rules or change of any other kind.</p><p></p><p>Which sucks for the DM, unless the rules are really good, and really robust and really flexible... and really not what D&D rules have generally been like.</p><p></p><p>There's as much consistency as the DM cares to impose, which may be quite a bit, or virtually none, sure. But that does suggest a very effective way to powergame: you just game the DM, not the system. </p><p></p><p>That doing so generally means playing up to what the DM wants from the campaign is in no way a conspiracy to get players to dance for DMs' amusement like trained monkeys. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>I didn't say that out loud, did I?</p><p></p><p>It's not a good thing for a board game or a casino or a lottery to see who is sacrificed to the corn god this year - but for an RPG it's just fine.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Do I want to know what that means?</p><p></p><p>Blasphemy! (Hmmm... you're 18th, so anyone non-evil & 8th or less is Killed, paralyzed, weakened, & dazed - no save).</p><p></p><p>Seriously, though, isn't being Needed a reasonable prerequisite for being Empowered. You can't very well be both empowered and superfluous.</p><p></p><p>To some degree, any two such visualizations are going to be different. But, inevitably, different people do have different interpretations, which is why you need the DM to have the final say.</p><p></p><p>Almost like a Storytelling Game? Could be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6879349, member: 996"] The latter was the way 5e went, if it was acceptable then, why not now? Like the 5MWD that often leads to it, it's one of those things clearly a potential issue based on the rules, but that you can always find an anecdote to confirm or deny. In 5e you can always toss the rules aside, though, so just because the rule clearly point to a given stumbling block doesn't mean any given DM will actually stumble over it. More resources are forthcoming as you level. It's not quite like 3e where your lower level slots become useful only for utility & buffing (it's close, /damaging/ spells cast with low level slots become irrelevant pretty quickly, but save DCs are based on your caster stat + prof, not spell/slot level). Very much like that. ;P You've clearly never been a consultant. Yeah, the book gives you some useful information, but it's up to you to decide what needs to be done and how to proceed to complete the job successfully. You will get some feedback: players who are sleeping, playing on their mobile devices, foaming at the mouth, or calling in sick are subtle clues... Videos of burning rulebooks and C&D orders aside, that's exactly right. You can always run a game how you want. If there are players interested in playing that way. A lot of players, though, are interested in playing a specific game - D&D - not in playing it a specific way. So a D&D that makes it painfully obvious that they can't play it without a DM issuing rulings is a D&D you can run with a great deal more ad hoc latitude than a D&D that gives the players clear, unequivocal rules and options - let alone one that has a rabid fan base that decries house rules or change of any other kind. Which sucks for the DM, unless the rules are really good, and really robust and really flexible... and really not what D&D rules have generally been like. There's as much consistency as the DM cares to impose, which may be quite a bit, or virtually none, sure. But that does suggest a very effective way to powergame: you just game the DM, not the system. That doing so generally means playing up to what the DM wants from the campaign is in no way a conspiracy to get players to dance for DMs' amusement like trained monkeys. ;) I didn't say that out loud, did I? It's not a good thing for a board game or a casino or a lottery to see who is sacrificed to the corn god this year - but for an RPG it's just fine. Do I want to know what that means? Blasphemy! (Hmmm... you're 18th, so anyone non-evil & 8th or less is Killed, paralyzed, weakened, & dazed - no save). Seriously, though, isn't being Needed a reasonable prerequisite for being Empowered. You can't very well be both empowered and superfluous. To some degree, any two such visualizations are going to be different. But, inevitably, different people do have different interpretations, which is why you need the DM to have the final say. Almost like a Storytelling Game? Could be. [/QUOTE]
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