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Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6879389"><p>I've been an independent contractor before. The fact that everyone wants their own special snowflake of a house doesn't mean that you build the house differently. You still have certain rules and regulations you must follow, so even if Bob wants their house to be two floors with green paint and a dozen octagonal windows, doesn't change anything about how you actually <em>build</em> the house. The same rules apply to putting the walls together. The same rules apply to laying the foundation. The same rules apply to putting the roof on. Just because two houses look different doesn't mean the ruleset by which you build a house changed. </p><p></p><p></p><p>You'll always get feedback, positive and negative. Sometimes you'll get negative feedback when you're following the rules, and sometimes you'll get positive. Sometimes you'll get the same when you aren't. How people react to what you do really isn't something you can account for. Yes I have players that chafe under the fact that I tend to be a stickler for rules. They might enjoy a more free-form game. But I find some acceptable middle ground between what the rules say you can or cannot do, and what the table enjoys. It's not altering the underlying rule systems, that's installing a sliding door instead of a hinged one. It's still a door. It functions the same. It's just a matter of taste.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well yes, and more often than not, players play together because there is a codified system of rules that illustrates a manner of play that they enjoy. There's a reason that Baseball players don't play Hockey.</p><p></p><p></p><p>D&D has come a long way from being a "specific game". CoC is a specific game. You can really only do one thing with CoC: and that's play a game of CoC. That is simply not the case with D&D. Even if you use the same rule set, the extraneous fluff is not tied to the mathematics. That is to say: when you play CoC, you're playing a game dealing with elder horrors invading the "real world". When you play D&D, you might be playing that very same game, or you're playing an early-Renaissance themed werewolf vs. vampires game, or you're playing a classic Swords and Sorcerery, or you're playing a low-magic Conan/Savage Worlds game. The underlying rules all remain identical. The only thing that changed is the shape of the windows and the color of the paint.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You can have your ideal RPG good, robust, or flexible, choose two. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Gaming the DM has always been a way to "win" at D&D. 5E hasn't changed that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You should, yes, since it's relevant to at least 3, maybe 4 editions of D&D.</p><p></p><p>The Holy Trinity is a game concept that as the basis for a party you need a Tank, Healer and one or more DPS. So when people talk about how such-and-such game really makes it feel like you "need a healer" or "we would have gotten crushed if it wasn't for our defender" people are talking about how the game relies on the Holy Trinity. 3E was very big on the Holy Trinity, you <em>needed</em> a healer. 4E provided the most distinct roles based along the "expanded" trinity, typically Defender(Tank), Striker(DPS), Support(Healer/Buffer) and Leader(Buffer), but at the same time provided one of the easiest systems to <em>avoid</em> the trinity, by giving everyone a little support, defense and buffing abilities, along with healing surges.</p><p></p><p>5E is moderately reliant on the Trinity. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure you can. The fact that you're not needed is exactly why you are empowered. Women who can hire baby-sitters and nannys or have reliable family members are less likely to become stay-at-home parents. They are empowered because the group can assume enough of the burden to allow her to not be the sole caregiver. You are empowered through <em>choice</em>. When you lack choice, you are not empowered. When you gain choice, you become empowered.</p><p></p><p></p><p>When I hear things like this I think it's a miracle we've invented such things as democracy. Assuming the court of the Table isn't split (ie: an even number of players) it's as simple a matter as holding a vote. The winning side becomes the ruling.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There are rules to telling a story. There are rules to writing. There are rules to publishing. These rules don't change when you're writing an epic fantasy tale or a gritty detective noir. Again: sliding doors and green paint vs hinged doors and blue paint doesn't change the rules of construction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 6879389"] I've been an independent contractor before. The fact that everyone wants their own special snowflake of a house doesn't mean that you build the house differently. You still have certain rules and regulations you must follow, so even if Bob wants their house to be two floors with green paint and a dozen octagonal windows, doesn't change anything about how you actually [I]build[/I] the house. The same rules apply to putting the walls together. The same rules apply to laying the foundation. The same rules apply to putting the roof on. Just because two houses look different doesn't mean the ruleset by which you build a house changed. You'll always get feedback, positive and negative. Sometimes you'll get negative feedback when you're following the rules, and sometimes you'll get positive. Sometimes you'll get the same when you aren't. How people react to what you do really isn't something you can account for. Yes I have players that chafe under the fact that I tend to be a stickler for rules. They might enjoy a more free-form game. But I find some acceptable middle ground between what the rules say you can or cannot do, and what the table enjoys. It's not altering the underlying rule systems, that's installing a sliding door instead of a hinged one. It's still a door. It functions the same. It's just a matter of taste. Well yes, and more often than not, players play together because there is a codified system of rules that illustrates a manner of play that they enjoy. There's a reason that Baseball players don't play Hockey. D&D has come a long way from being a "specific game". CoC is a specific game. You can really only do one thing with CoC: and that's play a game of CoC. That is simply not the case with D&D. Even if you use the same rule set, the extraneous fluff is not tied to the mathematics. That is to say: when you play CoC, you're playing a game dealing with elder horrors invading the "real world". When you play D&D, you might be playing that very same game, or you're playing an early-Renaissance themed werewolf vs. vampires game, or you're playing a classic Swords and Sorcerery, or you're playing a low-magic Conan/Savage Worlds game. The underlying rules all remain identical. The only thing that changed is the shape of the windows and the color of the paint. You can have your ideal RPG good, robust, or flexible, choose two. Gaming the DM has always been a way to "win" at D&D. 5E hasn't changed that. You should, yes, since it's relevant to at least 3, maybe 4 editions of D&D. The Holy Trinity is a game concept that as the basis for a party you need a Tank, Healer and one or more DPS. So when people talk about how such-and-such game really makes it feel like you "need a healer" or "we would have gotten crushed if it wasn't for our defender" people are talking about how the game relies on the Holy Trinity. 3E was very big on the Holy Trinity, you [I]needed[/I] a healer. 4E provided the most distinct roles based along the "expanded" trinity, typically Defender(Tank), Striker(DPS), Support(Healer/Buffer) and Leader(Buffer), but at the same time provided one of the easiest systems to [I]avoid[/I] the trinity, by giving everyone a little support, defense and buffing abilities, along with healing surges. 5E is moderately reliant on the Trinity. Sure you can. The fact that you're not needed is exactly why you are empowered. Women who can hire baby-sitters and nannys or have reliable family members are less likely to become stay-at-home parents. They are empowered because the group can assume enough of the burden to allow her to not be the sole caregiver. You are empowered through [I]choice[/I]. When you lack choice, you are not empowered. When you gain choice, you become empowered. When I hear things like this I think it's a miracle we've invented such things as democracy. Assuming the court of the Table isn't split (ie: an even number of players) it's as simple a matter as holding a vote. The winning side becomes the ruling. There are rules to telling a story. There are rules to writing. There are rules to publishing. These rules don't change when you're writing an epic fantasy tale or a gritty detective noir. Again: sliding doors and green paint vs hinged doors and blue paint doesn't change the rules of construction. [/QUOTE]
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