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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="Magil" data-source="post: 6879864" data-attributes="member: 6672353"><p>Maybe it's a feature of the level range I've been playing at--I'm typically looking at ~4 players at low to mid level. 4E had 30 levels, and I ran dynamic encounters at levels 6-10 I don't feel like I could run at the same levels in 5th edition, where there are only 20 levels (and while I appreciate the offer of a table for CRs 11-50, it wouldn't help for those reasons). The PCs simply don't have the resources for that kind of battle at the end of a typical adventuring day, and honestly it's questionable if they'd be able to handle a true multi-phase battle like the one I envision even with a full resource allotment at, say, level 6.</p><p></p><p>But I honestly don't see how you don't see the number gap in monsters. The baseline of the system takes it into account--in 4E, an encounter of moderate difficulty was considered one same-level monster for each PC. In 5E, a moderate encounter is around one same-CR monster for a party of four (not quite, but it's pretty close). Also in 5E, once you reach the point where there are five or more monsters on the board, a single Fireball or other AoE is likely to instantly kill a good number of them, at least up to level 10 or so. As you scale down CR, it becomes very apparent--two CR 4 creatures are considered a moderate challenge for four level 7 PCs, while in 4E, you could have up to <strong>nine</strong> level 6 monsters before the encounter pops over on the side of "deadly". </p><p></p><p>While I understand that 5E monster CR and 4E monster level are not the same thing, the problem in 5E typically becomes that hordes of smaller monsters tend to be much more deadly than they were in 4E if you don't have a good Area-of-Effect spell ready, and if you do, they tend to be trivial. There's not much in the way of middle ground there. That's the experience I have had, anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I realize it's not a thing exclusive to 5E, but I am finding it much more challenging to work "behind the scenes" in 5E than I did in 4E, where I did most of my DMing. I'd agree that 4E required significantly less "tailoring" than 5E does, and in my book, that makes it more flexible, because you can run all sorts of challenges without worrying so much whether or not the group has a fair shot at it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Magil, post: 6879864, member: 6672353"] Maybe it's a feature of the level range I've been playing at--I'm typically looking at ~4 players at low to mid level. 4E had 30 levels, and I ran dynamic encounters at levels 6-10 I don't feel like I could run at the same levels in 5th edition, where there are only 20 levels (and while I appreciate the offer of a table for CRs 11-50, it wouldn't help for those reasons). The PCs simply don't have the resources for that kind of battle at the end of a typical adventuring day, and honestly it's questionable if they'd be able to handle a true multi-phase battle like the one I envision even with a full resource allotment at, say, level 6. But I honestly don't see how you don't see the number gap in monsters. The baseline of the system takes it into account--in 4E, an encounter of moderate difficulty was considered one same-level monster for each PC. In 5E, a moderate encounter is around one same-CR monster for a party of four (not quite, but it's pretty close). Also in 5E, once you reach the point where there are five or more monsters on the board, a single Fireball or other AoE is likely to instantly kill a good number of them, at least up to level 10 or so. As you scale down CR, it becomes very apparent--two CR 4 creatures are considered a moderate challenge for four level 7 PCs, while in 4E, you could have up to [B]nine[/B] level 6 monsters before the encounter pops over on the side of "deadly". While I understand that 5E monster CR and 4E monster level are not the same thing, the problem in 5E typically becomes that hordes of smaller monsters tend to be much more deadly than they were in 4E if you don't have a good Area-of-Effect spell ready, and if you do, they tend to be trivial. There's not much in the way of middle ground there. That's the experience I have had, anyway. I realize it's not a thing exclusive to 5E, but I am finding it much more challenging to work "behind the scenes" in 5E than I did in 4E, where I did most of my DMing. I'd agree that 4E required significantly less "tailoring" than 5E does, and in my book, that makes it more flexible, because you can run all sorts of challenges without worrying so much whether or not the group has a fair shot at it. [/QUOTE]
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