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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6880147" data-attributes="member: 996">You wanted to the know the difference between you re-hashing edition war rhetoric, and thecasualoblivion criticizing 5e.  That's the difference, there was no edition war against 5e for him to re-hash, nor is what he (and Zardnaar, Corpsetaker and the very few other oddly determined critics of 5e hanging out here) has had to say tantamount to starting such a war.  AL is a special case in that it is comparable to 'out of the box' and does restrict DMs somewhat.  More broadly, 5e does try to cater to many styles, including those each past edition may be perceived to do particularly well - the ball is in the DM's court to implement such a style, the player who wants something quite specific from 5e will have to look for a specific sort of DM, or DM, himself.  But 5e is in essence meeting him half way.  Playing in AL will get the AL experience more than the 5e experience, FWIW.  Personally, I don't think that going back to a specific edition is the guaranteed playstyle-support it's made out to be, either.  I wouldn't think that thecasualoblivion would be particularly happier in dave2008's 4e game than in his 5e game - since he did make a point of adapting /each/ of them to a personal style of his own, for instance.  Similarly, if he came to my 4e table (yeah, I still run 4e as well as 5e, though I've taken a break this month), he'd probably be appalled at how off-the-cuff and '5e style' I run things, and how my 5-8 player party manages to lack both leaders and defenders even when everyone shows (his Pally would be most welcome, though, I'm sure).  ;P 3e gives you CoDzilla out the box, too. ;PSeriously, though, 'not even weird looking' is just so much re-skinning, no?  Spear proficiency could come with a tweaked background, and sticking to utility is a matter of spell & metamagic choice - not optimal choices, obviously, but choices.  You could get a character like that in a campaign where the DM was willing to work with you.  You couldn't guarantee it 'out the box' or irrespective of campaign, but it's hardly an impossibility.  5e's open to it.</blockquote>

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