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Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6881845" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>He shoots. He scores.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>ADV/DisADV isn't really controversial at all (nor are they new mechanics, not in D&D - 4e was rife with it - nor in RPGs in general). However, its proliferation to a central mechanic for all things is certainly "new." It has some wonky side-effects when it interfaces with various PC abilities or circumstances, but nothing like the side-effect of bounded accuracy.</p><p></p><p>This is where things get interesting (at least I think so). Bounded Accuracy was a design aim intended to protect against number inflation of either the "to-hit" or the "target number" in that core resolution mechanic (ADV/DisADV was intended to work with this paradigm and double down as a low mental overhead tool for circumstance adjudication). I don't recall during development where the devs were talking about BA being intended as a means to make combat increasingly lethal for martial characters who are wading into melee skirmishes with increasing numbers of canon fodder. Perhaps that was intentional, rather than an unintentional side effect. I just don't recall that being made explicit at any point (versus being discovered upstream by players).</p><p></p><p>The reason why I find it interesting is (intended or not), this is possibly the greatest deviation (mechanically and from a genre perspective) of all D&D past that 5e offers. And it is a significant one. </p><p></p><p>- AD&D's mook/heroic fray rules and the complete outstripping of melee PC's AC values versus mook's to-hit values. </p><p>- 3.x with the cleave/whirlwind/AoE meat grinder effects and the outstripping of mook's to-hit values by melee PC AC values.</p><p>- 4e Minion rules + high HPs vs Minion damage + means of self-sustaining (unlocking of own surges via powers/effects) + inspiration by allies (unlocking your surges) + all the various means of melee control available to melee PC (Burst Attacks, OAs, Immediation Actions, Auto-Damage vs adjacent to sweep Minions)</p><p></p><p>All of these system and PC build components served the genre master of "Big Damn Heroes Reaping Endless Waves of Canon Fodder". 5e's base system has altered/nerfed that canonical paradigm and there hasn't been much (any?) nerdrage over it.</p><p></p><p>As an aside, I suspect the Cleave module helps this out a decent bit. Perhaps that is why the nerdrage hasn't percolated? Most tables running with the Cleave rules?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6881845, member: 6696971"] He shoots. He scores. ADV/DisADV isn't really controversial at all (nor are they new mechanics, not in D&D - 4e was rife with it - nor in RPGs in general). However, its proliferation to a central mechanic for all things is certainly "new." It has some wonky side-effects when it interfaces with various PC abilities or circumstances, but nothing like the side-effect of bounded accuracy. This is where things get interesting (at least I think so). Bounded Accuracy was a design aim intended to protect against number inflation of either the "to-hit" or the "target number" in that core resolution mechanic (ADV/DisADV was intended to work with this paradigm and double down as a low mental overhead tool for circumstance adjudication). I don't recall during development where the devs were talking about BA being intended as a means to make combat increasingly lethal for martial characters who are wading into melee skirmishes with increasing numbers of canon fodder. Perhaps that was intentional, rather than an unintentional side effect. I just don't recall that being made explicit at any point (versus being discovered upstream by players). The reason why I find it interesting is (intended or not), this is possibly the greatest deviation (mechanically and from a genre perspective) of all D&D past that 5e offers. And it is a significant one. - AD&D's mook/heroic fray rules and the complete outstripping of melee PC's AC values versus mook's to-hit values. - 3.x with the cleave/whirlwind/AoE meat grinder effects and the outstripping of mook's to-hit values by melee PC AC values. - 4e Minion rules + high HPs vs Minion damage + means of self-sustaining (unlocking of own surges via powers/effects) + inspiration by allies (unlocking your surges) + all the various means of melee control available to melee PC (Burst Attacks, OAs, Immediation Actions, Auto-Damage vs adjacent to sweep Minions) All of these system and PC build components served the genre master of "Big Damn Heroes Reaping Endless Waves of Canon Fodder". 5e's base system has altered/nerfed that canonical paradigm and there hasn't been much (any?) nerdrage over it. As an aside, I suspect the Cleave module helps this out a decent bit. Perhaps that is why the nerdrage hasn't percolated? Most tables running with the Cleave rules? [/QUOTE]
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