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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8412121" data-attributes="member: 42582">Well, I just double-checked and I don't use that phrase.You've already had replies on this from [USER=71235]@niklinna[/USER] and [USER=1125]@Tonguez[/USER] so I don't need to repeat what they've said.I've got some time, so let's go back to this move:Seduce or Manipulate When you try to seduce or manipulate someone, tell them what you want and roll+hot. For NPCs: on a hit, they ask you to promise something first, and do it if you promise. On a 10+, whether you keep your promise is up to you, later. On a 7–9, they need some concrete assurance right now.As I said, the most striking difference from D&D is that there is not step of the sort you mentioned upthread: GM: <weighs up difficulty/assigns target number, possibly considers results of failure>There is no GM mediation. The GM does not have anything to decide until we know the result of the player's roll+ hot (a stat that every PC has). At that point, the GM also knows what they have to decide. If the roll was 7+, the GM has to decide what the NPC asks the PC to promise. If the throw was also less than 10, the GM has to decide what sort of concrete assurance the NPC wants right now.If the throw is 6 or less, then the GM can make as hard and direct a move, that follows from the fiction, as they like.In 5e D&D, at least to the extent I am familiar with it, there is no process whereby a player can declare as an action that their PC asks a NPC for something by offering something in return and then make a throw and then on the basis of that throw oblige the GM to have a NPC do something in exchange for a promise.In 5e D&D there is a process whereby the player can declare as an action that their PC asks a PC for something by offereing something in return. But at that point everything shifts to the GM, who has unfettered decision-making power as to whether and how the NPC responds. That power includes calling for a check, and deciding what if anything happens for any given result of that check.That is a big difference between the two games. In my view it's fundamental.</blockquote>

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