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thoughts on Apocalypse World?
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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 8415722" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>I think you are being a little too "legalistic" here. The writers of Dungeon World sought to evoke older editions of D&D with its race/class "restrictions," but that doesn't somehow mean that you are solemnly bound to them so that you can't make Dwarf Bards. Write 'Dwarf' at the top of your Bard sheet, pick whichever racial move you prefer (or make up your own), and you're done. No need to overcomplicate or fret over the little things.</p><p></p><p>Some people choose to make playbooks that are based on the principle of race as class. It doesn't mean that you can't define the Orc or Dwarf. What that means is that people have modded the game to create fan and 3pp content, and you can do likewise. There is not one "the Warlock" playbook created for Dungeon World. There are at least five on this <a href="https://exposit.github.io/dw-playbooks/" target="_blank"><strong>mega-listing of Dungeon World playbooks</strong></a> people have created.</p><p></p><p>If you are still worried about spending money on Dungeon World, there are a TON of free mods and variations of Dungeon World that are typically more open about these sort of things. For example, here is Jeremy Strandberg's <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oLQ6QUT9LgOZuzoB_YqUaCjfPGYEOlud/view" target="_blank"><strong>Homebrew World</strong></a>, which provides the option of simply listing whichever race beyond the standard set (i.e., human, dwarf, elf, halfling) you are and supplying more generic backgrounds for each playbook. It also modifies the playbooks so that they are a little more balanced, interesting, and quicker for convention play. It also replaces Alignment with Drives.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think that you are being adverse or difficult in our interactions about PbtA. (It reminds me a bit of me trying to get my head wrapped around Fate for the first time after mostly playing games structured like D&D.)</p><p></p><p>I honestly doubt that if Apocalypse World was my introduction to PbtA that I would have quite understood it. I only "got" Apocalypse World after going back to it later in my PbtA journeys when I already understood what it was trying to say and accomplish. This is why I would potentially recommend you can check out other games, possibly in genres that inspire you more readily than the Mad Maxian post-apocalyptic world of well... Apocalypse World. (I know, for example, that games like Troika and Mork Borg don't inspire me in the slightest.)</p><p></p><p>Iron Sworn (which is free) has already been recommended as a good distillation of PbtA style gaming. Magpie Games also is good at explaining PbtA at this point with their games: e.g., Masks, Monster Hearts, Urban Shadows, Avatar Legends, etc. If you like supernatural horror, I suspect that you may like Urban Shadows from Magpie Games, though it's more urban fantasy (with horror). Maybe that would inspire you. There should be a Quick Start primer for Urban Shadows (2nd Edition) and Avatar Legends as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just because how you would approach the setting differs from the default doesn't mean that there is a disconnect between the setting and rules. That said, the setting outside of Duskvol is mainly a backdrop for why the characters can't just leave the city or "take the money and run" when things get too hot for them. The city is meant to serve as a crucible and the self-contained sandbox for the characters. It's designed to keep players in the city while things increasingly heat up inside of the crucible. What will come through the other side? Play and find out.</p><p></p><p>The setting is important for understanding how the characters tick, but the game does approach tackling it from a particular angle: street gangs. This is not much different from how D&D generally presumes that you are approaching their settings of Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or Planescape from the perspective of "hardy, combat-capable adventurers" (often heroic) and not the myriad of other ways one could engage these settings. (It reminds me of how liberating it felt the first time that I played 7th Sea, and I realized that I could create my character as a mundane traveling merchant who sucked at combat rather than forcing any given D&D class through that same square hole.) Why do you adventure in the worlds of D&D? (Because you will engage in adventure in some capacity.)</p><p></p><p>Gangs may not be what you want to explore in such a setting, but complaining about this would be a bit like complaining how despite having such interesting settings games like <em>Thief</em> or <em>Dishonored</em> and books like <em>Fafhrd and the Gray Mouse</em> or <em>The Lies of Locke Lamora</em> force us to approach them from the perspective of criminals, thieves, and outsiders. Out of all the things that could be explored about New York between 1945 and 1955, why does The Godfather focus on the mafia? It just does. You're presumably picking up these titles for either gameplay or viewing/reading experience based on that premise. The game does not exist for supporting the setting; the setting exists for supporting the game.</p><p></p><p>In the case of Blades in the Dark, that's playing a gang of criminals in Duskvol. It's not your job as a GM to tell either players or PCs what their jobs in this world are. It's your job to listen as they tell you what their jobs are, what they plan on doing, and for you to then respond accordingly in a way in the fiction that respects their choices. If you are playing Blades in the Dark (and not some other supplement), then the game is asking you how your criminal got involved in crime in such a setting. Why are you a criminal in the world of Blades in the Dark?</p><p></p><p>In a number of play-thrus I have watched, it's not uncommon that the characters are down-on-their-luck people (e.g., merchants, "whalers," ex-watchmen, nobles, etc.) who have been forced into crime either as a last resort or because they have nowhere else to turn because society failed them. The entire premise of Breaking Bad is essentially predicated on the broken health care system in the United States, which pushes a high school chemistry teacher into a world of crime.</p><p></p><p>And Duskvol is in a much worse state of affairs. The nobility and cops are corrupt, and the vigilantes are privileged rich billionaires with dead parent issues who are investing their tremendous wealth in ridiculous bat costumes, martial arts and magic camp, high tech gadgets, endangering his teenage wards, and a private space satellite for his vigilante friends rather than either seeking professional therapy or solving the systemic issues that keeps Duskvol a hell-hole... oh wait a tick. Anyway, is it any wonder that your character is a criminal?</p><p></p><p></p><p>There are <a href="https://bladesinthedark.com/blades-supplements" target="_blank"><strong>supplements</strong></a> that focus on playing revoltuionaries, vigilantes, or even cops, if that's your thing. These supplements are even from Sean Nitter of Evil Hat Games who helped work on Blades in the Dark.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 8415722, member: 5142"] I think you are being a little too "legalistic" here. The writers of Dungeon World sought to evoke older editions of D&D with its race/class "restrictions," but that doesn't somehow mean that you are solemnly bound to them so that you can't make Dwarf Bards. Write 'Dwarf' at the top of your Bard sheet, pick whichever racial move you prefer (or make up your own), and you're done. No need to overcomplicate or fret over the little things. Some people choose to make playbooks that are based on the principle of race as class. It doesn't mean that you can't define the Orc or Dwarf. What that means is that people have modded the game to create fan and 3pp content, and you can do likewise. There is not one "the Warlock" playbook created for Dungeon World. There are at least five on this [URL='https://exposit.github.io/dw-playbooks/'][B]mega-listing of Dungeon World playbooks[/B][/URL] people have created. If you are still worried about spending money on Dungeon World, there are a TON of free mods and variations of Dungeon World that are typically more open about these sort of things. For example, here is Jeremy Strandberg's [URL='https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oLQ6QUT9LgOZuzoB_YqUaCjfPGYEOlud/view'][B]Homebrew World[/B][/URL], which provides the option of simply listing whichever race beyond the standard set (i.e., human, dwarf, elf, halfling) you are and supplying more generic backgrounds for each playbook. It also modifies the playbooks so that they are a little more balanced, interesting, and quicker for convention play. It also replaces Alignment with Drives. I don't think that you are being adverse or difficult in our interactions about PbtA. (It reminds me a bit of me trying to get my head wrapped around Fate for the first time after mostly playing games structured like D&D.) I honestly doubt that if Apocalypse World was my introduction to PbtA that I would have quite understood it. I only "got" Apocalypse World after going back to it later in my PbtA journeys when I already understood what it was trying to say and accomplish. This is why I would potentially recommend you can check out other games, possibly in genres that inspire you more readily than the Mad Maxian post-apocalyptic world of well... Apocalypse World. (I know, for example, that games like Troika and Mork Borg don't inspire me in the slightest.) Iron Sworn (which is free) has already been recommended as a good distillation of PbtA style gaming. Magpie Games also is good at explaining PbtA at this point with their games: e.g., Masks, Monster Hearts, Urban Shadows, Avatar Legends, etc. If you like supernatural horror, I suspect that you may like Urban Shadows from Magpie Games, though it's more urban fantasy (with horror). Maybe that would inspire you. There should be a Quick Start primer for Urban Shadows (2nd Edition) and Avatar Legends as well. Just because how you would approach the setting differs from the default doesn't mean that there is a disconnect between the setting and rules. That said, the setting outside of Duskvol is mainly a backdrop for why the characters can't just leave the city or "take the money and run" when things get too hot for them. The city is meant to serve as a crucible and the self-contained sandbox for the characters. It's designed to keep players in the city while things increasingly heat up inside of the crucible. What will come through the other side? Play and find out. The setting is important for understanding how the characters tick, but the game does approach tackling it from a particular angle: street gangs. This is not much different from how D&D generally presumes that you are approaching their settings of Forgotten Realms, Eberron, or Planescape from the perspective of "hardy, combat-capable adventurers" (often heroic) and not the myriad of other ways one could engage these settings. (It reminds me of how liberating it felt the first time that I played 7th Sea, and I realized that I could create my character as a mundane traveling merchant who sucked at combat rather than forcing any given D&D class through that same square hole.) Why do you adventure in the worlds of D&D? (Because you will engage in adventure in some capacity.) Gangs may not be what you want to explore in such a setting, but complaining about this would be a bit like complaining how despite having such interesting settings games like [I]Thief[/I] or [I]Dishonored[/I] and books like [I]Fafhrd and the Gray Mouse[/I] or [I]The Lies of Locke Lamora[/I] force us to approach them from the perspective of criminals, thieves, and outsiders. Out of all the things that could be explored about New York between 1945 and 1955, why does The Godfather focus on the mafia? It just does. You're presumably picking up these titles for either gameplay or viewing/reading experience based on that premise. The game does not exist for supporting the setting; the setting exists for supporting the game. In the case of Blades in the Dark, that's playing a gang of criminals in Duskvol. It's not your job as a GM to tell either players or PCs what their jobs in this world are. It's your job to listen as they tell you what their jobs are, what they plan on doing, and for you to then respond accordingly in a way in the fiction that respects their choices. If you are playing Blades in the Dark (and not some other supplement), then the game is asking you how your criminal got involved in crime in such a setting. Why are you a criminal in the world of Blades in the Dark? In a number of play-thrus I have watched, it's not uncommon that the characters are down-on-their-luck people (e.g., merchants, "whalers," ex-watchmen, nobles, etc.) who have been forced into crime either as a last resort or because they have nowhere else to turn because society failed them. The entire premise of Breaking Bad is essentially predicated on the broken health care system in the United States, which pushes a high school chemistry teacher into a world of crime. And Duskvol is in a much worse state of affairs. The nobility and cops are corrupt, and the vigilantes are privileged rich billionaires with dead parent issues who are investing their tremendous wealth in ridiculous bat costumes, martial arts and magic camp, high tech gadgets, endangering his teenage wards, and a private space satellite for his vigilante friends rather than either seeking professional therapy or solving the systemic issues that keeps Duskvol a hell-hole... oh wait a tick. Anyway, is it any wonder that your character is a criminal? There are [URL='https://bladesinthedark.com/blades-supplements'][B]supplements[/B][/URL] that focus on playing revoltuionaries, vigilantes, or even cops, if that's your thing. These supplements are even from Sean Nitter of Evil Hat Games who helped work on Blades in the Dark. [/QUOTE]
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