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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8416605" data-attributes="member: 16814">I'm not defensive at all.  I'm pointing out that your statement makes no sense in the way that storming Australia makes not sense when you're playing Monopoly.  As such, the charge that it's a glaring omission is, well, without any weight.  I'm not getting my back up, I'm pointing out that you're coming in from left field and making statements that don't really make any sense.Nope.  I'm saying that passively investigating a murder scene where there's no dramatic interest pressing on the play is not something that PbtA even cares about.  [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] presented a situation from Blades, which using PbtA as a strong influence, that occurred in actual play and was an investigation, so it's pretty clear it can do investigations.  The problem is that you're still looking at games as a task resolution system, when players are prompting the GM to tell them more about the world or situation and not a game where the players are driving the game and the GM is being obligated by what the players are doing.  I don't have an answer to your question of how PbtA could do what reads like an anodyne police-procedural because that's just not what the system cares about in the same way that D&D doesn't care about what it's like to be a teenaged werewolf exploring your sexuality and finding out you're deeply attracted to a same-sex vampire even though you're dating the super hot opposite sex succubus cheerleader.   This seems like a glaring omission in D&D, yes?ETA: look, I had a lot of trouble with this concept, asking similar questions and not getting it.  I bounced off of Burning Wheel when it was released -- bounced hard.  Couldn't fathom at all how it was supposed to work.  It really took me realizing that people were saying that these things worked, and that they seemed like pretty reasonable people (except for that) and were pretty consistent in what they were saying, so I tried out starting with assuming, "ok, let's just accept it works that way, can I move my understanding around to make that work?"  And, click, it locked in and I got it.  I still play 5e, and don't bother with this approach at all when I do, because 5e isn't a game that supports this.  I'm currently playing Aliens, and the GM running it is doing it using principles similar to PbtA, and I think it's working okay, but my read on that game is that it should be played out in much more of a classic approach -- keyed scenario type stuff.  We'll find out.  I also play/run Blades, and there I absolutely embrace the concepts here and a straight up murder scene investigation just won't happen in that game, because the only what that can happen is to have the GM push it into the game.  Otherwise, the system's going to be generating way more charged situations -- like the thief pretending to be an inspector casing the scene at high risk of being caught just to pick up a bit of evidence as a setup for a later score to incriminate someone.  Or to reduce the heat on their crew.  Or something else equally charged.  Why?  Because Blades drives this situations and doesn't drive mundane investigations where the players search for the clues the GM has placed.  Just different games with different intents, goals, and procedures.  I absolutely do these investigation things in my 5e games.</blockquote>

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