Thoughts on Controller Abilities

ZSutherland

First Post
Necessary Controller Abilities

We’ve heard a surprising amount about the 4e wizard in the last few weeks, such as the removal of wish, but the most interesting tidbit to me is the confirmation that the class will fill the arcane controller (and likely only PHB I controller) role. I’ve been mulling that over along with the other things we’ve been hearing about other roles and how they will likely play out, and I come up with some pretty specific opinions about what I think the wizard will need to fill that role properly within the context of an adventuring party and as a potentially adversarial NPC. I’ve also come up with some things that need to be avoided. I wonder what peoples opinions are on these notions, and if anyone has any to add.

1. Persistent effects – While it’s pretty clear from some of the play-test reports that the wizard is retaining at least some of his instantaneous blasting potential, I think that to adequately act as a controller, wizards should have access to a variety of multi-round duration effects at any given level. Most of the 3e arcane control spells fit this requirement pretty well as is, but a couple jump out at me as problematic, especially at first level. Summon Monster I seems like the worst offender. You spend a full round just begging someone to pop you while you cast, just to get a weak, extra ally for one round. Except in very rare circumstances, I would think the best you could get out of this at level 1 is to set-up a 1 round flank for the party rogue so he can get SA. That’s not persistent, and it doesn’t do much to control the battle. At higher levels, the SM spells work better, but they’re still sub-par in my mind.

2. Priority shift effects vs. Option reduction effects – Keeping in mind that these abilities could potentially be used against the PCs and that part of the DM’s fun is playing his half of the combat well, I think WotC should focus on effects that shift the targets priorities rather than limit or remove options. In 3.5, I see Baleful Polymorph, and any spell with an incapacitating effect (sleep, Power Word Stun, etc.) as strong examples of the sorts of spells to avoid. Certainly, those are control effects that can dramatically affect the encounter, but they’re not much fun when applied to players, and can seriously suck the fun out of an encounter for the DM, too. Slow is a middle of the road spell. It doesn’t completely take the target out of the encounter, but it certainly limits their options from round to round. Mirror Image, on the other hand, is a great priority shift spell. It forces the attacker to consider that while the caster may be the most important target overall, the spell effect may result in a wasted turn which could have been better spent in other ways. Imagine a spell that says “For X rounds, each time the target makes an attack roll that results in damage, it takes half the damage it deals (rounded down).” This doesn’t actually limit the targets actions at all, but whomever controls it may re-evaluate how he wants to spend the next X rounds.

3. Force the caster to make smart choices – Part of the fun, to me, of playing a wizard (rather than a sorcerer) has always been the challenge of choosing my spells each day. It involved smart projections about what was likely to happen that day, making a plan for how to deal with those events, and planning some contingency spells in case my projection or plan was flawed. With the introduction of per-encounter abilities for the class (which I’m fine with), I want to avoid the “use your best ability first and then march down the line” style of play. Make sure to write the abilities so that I have to think about which ones to use, in what order, and who to target with them if I want to optimize my results.

Any one else have any they’d like to add (or subtract, or change)? Wizard’s always been my favorite class, even if I do rarely get to play instead of DM, so I’m very interested in where they go with the class.
 

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I think a controller should have a multitude of abilities. Not to use MMO terminology (but I will anyway)

1) an ability to "mez" a target
2) an ability to "mez" multiple targets, to a lesser extent of the single target mez
3) an ability to "push away" enemies (ie telekinesis, wind spell, etc.)
4) an ability to make obstacles on the battlefield that enemies have to deal with (ie walls)
5) ability to "swap" positions between enemies and/or allies

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Any additions I didn't think of?
 



grimslade said:
I assume short for mesmerize. Color Spray, Charm, Fascinate, Confusion, Command seem to fit the bill.

Correct, but those are the sorts of abilities that I hope they shy away from by and large. A few such abilities as per day powers instead of per encounter might be fine, but abilities that effectively remove a combatant or combatants from the encounter on a regular basis strike me as problematic and not terribly fun for either DMs or players (depending on who gets hit with them.)

I think abilities like that also become very difficult to balance. If the default assumption about combat encounter design is approximately one opponent per PC, and the controller (wizard or otherwise) is built around the ability to temporarily remove one of the opponents, they have to take that into account when calculating the offensive power of each oppenent, or the average 4 PCs to 3 opponents (+1 controlled/stunned/mezzed/whatever) potentially becomes trivial. On the other hand, if the do balance them like so that 3 active opponents truly challenges 4 PCs, then groups without a controller may face unnecessary difficulty.

...Actually, maybe that's the point. D&D has always been built around the assumption of an average 4 PC party, 4e will be no different, and you need one PC covering each of the 4 roles. Anything past that may just be gravy.
 

ZSutherland said:
1. (...) Summon Monster I seems like the worst offender. You spend a full round just begging someone to pop you while you cast, just to get a weak, extra ally for one round.
This is what I love about spellcasters: at first levels you are just an apprentice, knowing a few weak tricks. You have to deal with it and take the best out of your limited powers. Then as you get experienced you get exponentially powerful, with world-altering spells.

ZSutherland said:
2. Priority shift effects vs. Option reduction effects – Keeping in mind that these abilities could potentially be used against the PCs and that part of the DM’s fun is playing his half of the combat well, I think WotC should focus on effects that shift the targets priorities rather than limit or remove options.
"What goes around comes around :D

ZSutherland said:
3. Force the caster to make smart choices – Part of the fun, to me, of playing a wizard (rather than a sorcerer) has always been the challenge of choosing my spells each day.
There is really someone who actually liked Vancian magic?!?! :p
One of the reasons why I abhor this mechanic is that your characters intelligence/wisdom means nothing for this task... Here comes the 7th stat: the players reasoning. At least people should roleplay this as well. I've never seen a wizard with 8 Wis and 18 Int make silly spell choices for the day (as the character should). Or being a Cleric with high wisdom doesn't means the character will do good spell choices.
The sorcerer makes more sense in this aspect. Each level you choose spells that may be the most useful for the party or that you simply like. Then you just stick with those.

Bottom line: I hate lists and I love diversity :) The controller just needs a big varied list of spells/effects to do everything he can immagine :D
 

Will we be able to sheep targets?

Sheep.jpg
 

ZSutherland said:
1. Persistent effects
I hope summons get made into a fixed duration. I always thought 20 rounds was way too long at the high end, and 1 round was way too short at the low end. I think five rounds is a good compromise - means people can run away from them until they disappear, or if they can kill them quickly they save a couple of rounds of hurt.

However, I don't want to see as many buffs in 4e as in 3rd ed. At higher levels they really became a chore. My 18th level fighter was little more than a template onto which vast quantities of buffs were stacked - he was so much more effective with them than without them that he felt dependent on them to be useful!
 

Keep the save-or-sucks. It's fun to hit your opponents with them, and, while it sucks to get hit, it makes it all the more satisfying when the BBEG goes down. Plus, it's funny to watch a bunch of people beat each other up under the effect of confusion.

Persistent effects, such as grease and black tentacles, are good and should stay. They fit controller-ism perfectly, IMHO.
 

Gort said:
I hope summons get made into a fixed duration. I always thought 20 rounds was way too long at the high end, and 1 round was way too short at the low end. I think five rounds is a good compromise - means people can run away from them until they disappear, or if they can kill them quickly they save a couple of rounds of hurt.

I prefer when summons can last well past 20 rounds. It adds some utility to the spell so its not just a DOT with some flavor.(DOT=Damage over time)
I want to be able to summon 3 orcs and have them chop some firewood for me, not just summon a wolf where it just bites things for 30 seconds. I want to be able to use that wolf to track some dudes who escaped in the fight with its super sniffer.

The horrible stats summons seem to have would be somewhat justifiable if they could be used for a reasonable time so you get some utility out of them.
 

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