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General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Thoughts on Eldritch Blast options for Warlock
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<blockquote data-quote="VenerableBede" data-source="post: 8953911" data-attributes="member: 7032917"><p>I did the math on all of these, levels 1–20, early on in A5e's lifespan. I'm speaking from memory right now, and some experience since then, but here's the gist of what I observed:</p><p><strong>1.</strong> Eldritch Ray seems to be, arguably, the best choice for the <em>average</em> warlock. It's the most useful in the most circumstances and does the most consistent damage, and it tends to pair best with most of the warlock's invocations and other features. It's just plain reliable.</p><p><strong>2.</strong> If you plan on being in melee, Pact of the Blade with the appropriate invocations sometimes is better, sometimes is worse than Eldritch Scythe, depending on the level, at least with regards to single-target damage (which is more reliable than single-target and a little to the guy next to you). It really depends on the build you want, though. Pact of the Blade more consistently outperforms Eldritch Scythe in damage output with two-handed weapons, but that means no shield and lower AC, and most warlocks already don't have great AC or HP. If you use a one-handed weapon, Eldritch Scythe will do as much (or more) damage as any other one-handed weapon with a more reliable damage type, and you can wield a shield, freeing up your pact for something else. Or you could get a ranged Eldritch Blast for flexibility, go Pact of the Blade for your melee options, and be versatile. There's a lot of build options here that will more-or-less perform as well in damage output, but some will be much more MAD and invocation-intensive than others.</p><p>Anyway, you'll average par-or-below with most Eldritch Scythe/Pact of the Blade builds (that I'm aware of) compared to Eldritch Ray, but those numbers go down a little if you factor in the possibility of Eldritch Ray, being ranged, being able to attack immediately in combat while you might spend a turn or two with a melee Pact of the Blade weapon (or Eldritch Scythe) running up to your enemies.</p><p>(Eldritch Scythe has a niche use that you automatically deal the secondary damage, so if your BBEG has an AC too high to reliably hit but is always surrounded by minions that can be reliably hit, you can deal some OK damage to the BBEG while slaughtering his minions, but this does demand that you survive being adjacent to at least two creatures that probably are actively trying to murder you in response, and once the weaker enemy is dead you lose this niche. I don't think most people will ever experience this.)</p><p><strong>3.</strong> Eldritch Whip, conceptually, can blow the other options out of the water with damage, but it's inconsistent and won't ever reach its full potential at most tables (assuming your table averages 2–4 rounds most combats). Assuming you can successfully hit at least one attack per turn (which gets more consistent the more attacks you have), and assuming you never <em>get</em> hit (and thereby lose your temporary HP), you catch up to Eldritch Ray in damage in about 3 turns and start significantly outclassing the other three options by about turn 5. In other words, in really specific situations you can be a monster, but it requires you to never get hit, hit at least once every turn, and have combats that regularly last longer than the average.</p><p>With the right build, I would personally rate this as roughly equal with Eldritch Scythe, but the stars need to align for it to really shine.</p><p><strong>4.</strong> Eldritch Disturbance, in my opinion, is bad. True, it does more damage than everything else levels 1–4, but that's it, and it's only by a point or so. True, it doesn't have any disadvantages to being used in melee, unlike Eldritch Ray, and it has much more range than Eldritch Scythe and Whip, making it arguably more flexible—if that's what your priorities are, you might like this option more. But it scales terribly compared to the extra attacks the other Blasts get, dropping in damage to dead last the moment you hit 5th level, and it never scales with invocations that apply per-hit.</p><p>Are there niche cases? Well, damage is guaranteed (half on a failed save), so you will never <em>not</em> do damage, which some players might like. (Of course, good Wisdom saves are common, so you might be doing half damage more often than not, depending on the enemies your GM chooses.) That can be a boon against enemies with really high AC and really high saves—while everyone else is missing, you can keep chipping away with consistent low damage. So I don't think there are no good use cases for Eldritch Disturbance. I just think those use cases are much more limited than the other Blasts and also assume that you'd rather deal with the problem by spamming Eldritch Disturbance rather than casting a spell.</p><p></p><p>This doesn't even close to consider every potential situation. I'm sure there are builds I'm unaware of that might take something I posited as a minor or inconsistent option and makes it great, and there are multiple edge cases I didn't mention that I'm already aware of where, in a one-shot where I know what's coming, I might pick a Blast that I normally consider inferior over the other options. But, in general, if you want consistency in damage and utility over the most levels that fits on most warlock builds, go Ray. If you want to be a meleelock, Pact of the Blade, Eldritch Scythe, and Eldritch Whip all have something to offer, so carefully weigh what you really want with the strengths and weaknesses of each. If you want to usually be less effective than the others, go Disturbance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="VenerableBede, post: 8953911, member: 7032917"] I did the math on all of these, levels 1–20, early on in A5e's lifespan. I'm speaking from memory right now, and some experience since then, but here's the gist of what I observed: [B]1.[/B] Eldritch Ray seems to be, arguably, the best choice for the [I]average[/I] warlock. It's the most useful in the most circumstances and does the most consistent damage, and it tends to pair best with most of the warlock's invocations and other features. It's just plain reliable. [B]2.[/B] If you plan on being in melee, Pact of the Blade with the appropriate invocations sometimes is better, sometimes is worse than Eldritch Scythe, depending on the level, at least with regards to single-target damage (which is more reliable than single-target and a little to the guy next to you). It really depends on the build you want, though. Pact of the Blade more consistently outperforms Eldritch Scythe in damage output with two-handed weapons, but that means no shield and lower AC, and most warlocks already don't have great AC or HP. If you use a one-handed weapon, Eldritch Scythe will do as much (or more) damage as any other one-handed weapon with a more reliable damage type, and you can wield a shield, freeing up your pact for something else. Or you could get a ranged Eldritch Blast for flexibility, go Pact of the Blade for your melee options, and be versatile. There's a lot of build options here that will more-or-less perform as well in damage output, but some will be much more MAD and invocation-intensive than others. Anyway, you'll average par-or-below with most Eldritch Scythe/Pact of the Blade builds (that I'm aware of) compared to Eldritch Ray, but those numbers go down a little if you factor in the possibility of Eldritch Ray, being ranged, being able to attack immediately in combat while you might spend a turn or two with a melee Pact of the Blade weapon (or Eldritch Scythe) running up to your enemies. (Eldritch Scythe has a niche use that you automatically deal the secondary damage, so if your BBEG has an AC too high to reliably hit but is always surrounded by minions that can be reliably hit, you can deal some OK damage to the BBEG while slaughtering his minions, but this does demand that you survive being adjacent to at least two creatures that probably are actively trying to murder you in response, and once the weaker enemy is dead you lose this niche. I don't think most people will ever experience this.) [B]3.[/B] Eldritch Whip, conceptually, can blow the other options out of the water with damage, but it's inconsistent and won't ever reach its full potential at most tables (assuming your table averages 2–4 rounds most combats). Assuming you can successfully hit at least one attack per turn (which gets more consistent the more attacks you have), and assuming you never [I]get[/I] hit (and thereby lose your temporary HP), you catch up to Eldritch Ray in damage in about 3 turns and start significantly outclassing the other three options by about turn 5. In other words, in really specific situations you can be a monster, but it requires you to never get hit, hit at least once every turn, and have combats that regularly last longer than the average. With the right build, I would personally rate this as roughly equal with Eldritch Scythe, but the stars need to align for it to really shine. [B]4.[/B] Eldritch Disturbance, in my opinion, is bad. True, it does more damage than everything else levels 1–4, but that's it, and it's only by a point or so. True, it doesn't have any disadvantages to being used in melee, unlike Eldritch Ray, and it has much more range than Eldritch Scythe and Whip, making it arguably more flexible—if that's what your priorities are, you might like this option more. But it scales terribly compared to the extra attacks the other Blasts get, dropping in damage to dead last the moment you hit 5th level, and it never scales with invocations that apply per-hit. Are there niche cases? Well, damage is guaranteed (half on a failed save), so you will never [I]not[/I] do damage, which some players might like. (Of course, good Wisdom saves are common, so you might be doing half damage more often than not, depending on the enemies your GM chooses.) That can be a boon against enemies with really high AC and really high saves—while everyone else is missing, you can keep chipping away with consistent low damage. So I don't think there are no good use cases for Eldritch Disturbance. I just think those use cases are much more limited than the other Blasts and also assume that you'd rather deal with the problem by spamming Eldritch Disturbance rather than casting a spell. This doesn't even close to consider every potential situation. I'm sure there are builds I'm unaware of that might take something I posited as a minor or inconsistent option and makes it great, and there are multiple edge cases I didn't mention that I'm already aware of where, in a one-shot where I know what's coming, I might pick a Blast that I normally consider inferior over the other options. But, in general, if you want consistency in damage and utility over the most levels that fits on most warlock builds, go Ray. If you want to be a meleelock, Pact of the Blade, Eldritch Scythe, and Eldritch Whip all have something to offer, so carefully weigh what you really want with the strengths and weaknesses of each. If you want to usually be less effective than the others, go Disturbance. [/QUOTE]
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