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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 4480040" data-attributes="member: 2167">First - thanks for the comments. I was honestly starting to think no one gave a rat's ... about the topic. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />This is the same problem we have with the system. Most of the people in our game group (at least those that started RPing before MMOs) see character design in exactly the same way. We generate a "fantasy character" concept in our head and then sit down and try to mash that concept into the rules system.  It simply doesn't work.I agree that there really should be no "jack-of-all-trades". This concept is the concept that can break a game. No one should be great at everything, or you simply don't need anyone else. However, WotC broke their own "purist" design philosophy with the Paladin and the Swordmage. These, to me, seem the best example of how to do a "mixed-role" or "hybrid" class that doesn't require an outright "switch" like a Druid's Shapechanging. I also think the system NEEDS more hybrid role classes like this for the simple fact that not everyone has a 5 person game group. Even for those with a 4 person game group, there is ALWAYS the 1 player stuck playing a character they don't want to play just because someone HAS to play that given role. Its like being in an MMO. I don't want my RPing to be that restricted. If I want to run a game where I don't force someone to be a Defender or a Leader, I want that party to work without having to bend over backwards as a DM to make sure the party isn't hosed every time they turn around.I also think "hybrid" flavored classes create a more flavorful approach to classes. Swordmage is the perfect example of that. In most cases, it fills the niche for the Fighter/Mage flavor concept.  However, where is the Arcane Trickster style class? What about a Shadow Knight? A Theurge?I agree. I personally feel it was wither lazy design, or they simply wanted to hold the concept for future releases, only placing the most basic of classes in the PHB1 for people to learn the game on. Basically the "training wheel" classes, since so much of the business plan for 4E has been about simplifying the game for the "New Generation of Player". In doing so they seriously alienated a lot of the 'old school' players.This is much more close to the class design I think we need. As I said, not every game group has the happy 4 mix, nor should it need it. I like the "switch" WHEN it makes sense for a design philosophy. It doesn't fit all class concepts.  However, another option for a hybrid is taking the design philosophy of the Swordmage and combine it with the ideas you list above.For hypothetical example, lets say we want an Arcane Trickster - a rogue with arcane talents.Role: Hybrid (Striker / Controller)Power Source: ArcaneKey Abilities: Int, Dex, ChaArmor Proficiencies: Cloth, LeatherWeapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, shuriken, slingImplements: Dagger, WandBonus to Defense: +1 Reflex, +1 WillHit Points (1st): 12 + Con scoreHit Points (per level): 5Healing Surges per Day: 6+ Con modTrained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below, choose five more trained skills at 1st level.Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex) Build Options: Assassin, LegerdemainClass Features: * Charms (similar to cantrips but refocused to be more rogue-like such as a self-only Light cantrip, an Eavesdrop cantrip that adds to perception checks, etc.)* Trickster Tactics:  A defining ability related to the builds...--- Assassin (Stealth and Damage focus) - something more stealth and combat focused.--- Legerdemain (Thievery and Utility focus) - something like using Mage Hand that can be used with Thievery.* Energy Attack (a magical striker ability that adds extra magical damage to attacks similar to the warlock's +1d6).* Ritual CasterPowers would then be a mix of mostly striker abilities with some mix of utility and controller, but keeping to the flavor of the arcane trickster concept. For example instead of Thunderwave, perhaps an attack that instead covers a blast three area with an effect mote like the 3.5E Grease.Just a thought. Would this style class work?</blockquote>

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