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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Anthelios" data-source="post: 4483136" data-attributes="member: 25609">I have been working on a hybrid class myself for an upcoming game I'm going to run and have run into the problems posted above about not outshining the primary role character with the hybrid.Now if we look to the MMO model there are plenty of Hybrids to look at, and how they can get away with it is by focusing on just one thing they do well, or by making them having to choose what they do well (both are presented above). This tends to make these style of characters fun to play, in MMOs, and I can say from personal experience that the classes as written can be built to be hybrids themselves. For example:A fighter / Pit Fighter that focuses on heavy blades and pumping up his damage output can be a bigger striker than a warlock. However his marking and damage output will get him into trouble, as that much focus on offense is going to leave him weaker against attacks than your average defender of the same level.Back to the MMO model, I think it's also important to note that certain things are fair game for Hybrids and others are not. For example, healing is a good ability to pass out to a hybrid. Its a function no one will complain about having more of, and its only a bit of the Leader's domain. Leaders have other buff/attack abilities to assist their companions, they aren't just healers. Adding healing therefore does not take away from their shine, but adds something to the party that is always in demand.A second role seems to be strikers. Strikers deal damage in some form and style. Close up, ranged, AC or other defense targeted. Conditional damage seems to be the name of the game when it comes to 4E strikers. Each strike has its own place in the battle, and only a few strikers actually get in each others way (Namely warlocks cant curse the same target, lowering their damage against solos and elites).Control can also be a viable Hybrid option, but again you need to limit it so that it doesn't outshine control specialists. In my opinion though the wizard should have a bit more striker than he currently does, but that's an issue I plan to address in my own campaign.So far from my experience in a few different groups, strikers seem to be the most popular role to play, with leaders behind them and defenders and controllers in the rear. Controllers actually seem the least popular, but that could just be my experiences with players. If we look at the MMO model again, the same holds true in those games. In WoW, hunters and rangers rain supreme. Shadow Priests and Locks as well. Everyone wants to do the big damage. The other classes are necessary to play, but its easy to find the damage dealers, as they are always a ton out there looking for a spot.So Hybrids actually seem like a pretty viable option as long as you borrow from the less popular classes, and add in components from the more popular classes. A Striker with some control (EQ: Necromancers, WoW: Shamans, Hunters). Defender with Leader (EQ: Shadow Knights, Paladins, WoW: Paladins) and Control with Leader/Striker (EQ: Shaman, Druid Wow: Mage, Warlock, SPriest)So, here are some things I think fit well into hybrid styles:1.) Controller Striker with melee/ranged ability - Their controls will be single specific or less effective against a group. They will have to specialize in ranged or melee abilities and will have more conditional controls than the wizard, but higher single target damage. In very specific conditions their damage may be higher than pure strikers, but that is rare.Suggested abilities: Conditional damage adders - Like adding d6s when you have combat advantage with a ranged weapon, much harder than melee since you can't flank to gain it. Buff or Control abilities - Make their damage dependent on the amount of control they are doing; Say, they add damage to their attacks but can drop the extra damage to apply an effect, like slow.MMO Reference: This could be similar to a WoW paladins strikes and seals. The seal gives a minor effect, but is consistent. Using it up could cause a surge in damage but no more status effect, or can do the reverse: Minor damage upgrade or sacrifice it for a status effect.2.) Defender with Leader or Striker- A healer who's abilities are centered around him taking damage instead of other people. The paladin has a few abilities like this already. Another option is to make it a front line single target defender who's damage increases as he takes damage himself, similar to a barbarian, or who's ability to heal is based around how much harm he inflicts/is inflicted upon him.Suggested Abilities: Hits that are more powerful when bloodied. Heals that only trigger while bloodied or on crits. Absorbing allies damage, minor buffs that heal when they are damaged, but buff is consumed. Defenses rely on first taking a few hits before reacting to the damage; ie - Hit by fire before they can give themselves a fire resistance.MMO Equivalents: I think the EQ Shadow Knight is a good example of this sort of character, and isn't presented much any longer. Could give them a harm touch that damaged the target and heals themselves, but consumes a healing surge and they must be bloody to use. Could also give them attacks that grant temp HP as they hit foes, or a bonus to defenses when they critically hit or are critically hit. There are lots of ways to tie the defense aspect into a striker or a leader.3.) Melee Control with leader or Striker - Similar to the above one, mostly because I think the game could use some more control. Force the control to be situation to what they can do.Suggested Abilities: Condition transference, buff/debuffs. Say, they slow a target and an ally gets a bonus to their speed. Or they daze a target an they take an additional melee basic attack. You can make the benefits conditional, and if a leader style in the mix make it conditional on others. Like, while you are flanking with an ally you grant someone within range 5 combat advantage against that foe.MMO Examples: The EQ Shaman and even the WoW shaman are good examples. Both have the ability to heal, but it is more defined than other healers. EQ shamans were excellent at the heals over time, but their direct heals were weak. They were the best at some types of control, though, yet totally lacked others. They had some of the best buffs for melee but had almost none for casters. Shamans in WoW have potent buffs that rely on emanations from a fixed point, their totems. They can be strong strikers, but they really cant buff their control aspect at all, its stuck at what it is. They can also be very temporary defenders with summoned elementals.I think also a summoning class will make a pretty interesting change to the game, I'd like to see what Wizards has in store for summoning, but I have some ideas myself that I'm working on, to make them conditional hybrids based on the summons.Anyway, in closing I think the biggest thing to remember is that if your going to make hybrids they need to be fun to play, but not just two of other classes put together. Conditional benefits are your friend here, just look at the examples we've already seen in the RAW.</blockquote>

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