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General Tabletop Discussion
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Thoughts on Improving Martials
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<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 8315812" data-attributes="member: 6796468"><p>The first problem is a problem. They only become great damage dealers if you use a specific set of feats which are an optional system by core rules. And even those of us DMs who do use feats sometimes say "No GWM, No SS". I've also -had- this problem at my table, where fighter types feel like their only option is to stand in melee and hit a target in the face, repeatedly, with no real and meaningful choices.</p><p></p><p>It has even caused problems when the party needs to do something (Like get through a door in order to have a chance at survival) because the party's fighter-type just stops moving and starts swinging instead of working toward the group's actual goals. Autopilot play, essentially.</p><p></p><p>As to "The best condition is dying"... Meh. If your entire game is based exclusively around maximizing metagame that's it's own separate issue. This is meant to increase options, not completely replace martial combat with "Everything you're already doing, plus a whole lot more!" as that would be much more likely to create significant balance issues. "Shoving Tokens" is useful for making sure your party members can avoid opportunity attacks, knocking enemies off cliffs, removing disadvantage from ranged attack rolls... the list goes on. It's also much cooler to swing in on a chandelier than stand in front of a guy and trade punches until someone falls over.</p><p></p><p>As to the second problem, yeah. I'm pretty well stumped. I like A5e's class-based improvements to social and exploration skills, but I also feel like it's not quite "Enough"... you know?</p><p></p><p>Like it's great that Fighters can get bonuses to a couple of skills every few levels, but I feel like there needs to be more than that. More than just increased skill use. Mainly because Martials are much less likely to have decent bonuses to out of combat skill use (Due to their ability-score placement preferences) compared to Wizards who -also- gain out-of-combat knacks for exploration and stuff in the A5e system.</p><p></p><p>But the best I can think of is explicitly allowing Martials to use Strength for Investigation Checks instead of Wisdom as they "Toss a Room". Literally flipping tables and yanking out dresser drawers to make a big mess. Which could work, I guess? But it just feels so very -narrow-.</p><p></p><p>I sincerely feel like the skill system needs some kind of overhaul since it's covering two whole pillars of gamplay... Or maybe to be broken apart so there's Skills for Exploration and some new system for Social Interaction Skills?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 8315812, member: 6796468"] The first problem is a problem. They only become great damage dealers if you use a specific set of feats which are an optional system by core rules. And even those of us DMs who do use feats sometimes say "No GWM, No SS". I've also -had- this problem at my table, where fighter types feel like their only option is to stand in melee and hit a target in the face, repeatedly, with no real and meaningful choices. It has even caused problems when the party needs to do something (Like get through a door in order to have a chance at survival) because the party's fighter-type just stops moving and starts swinging instead of working toward the group's actual goals. Autopilot play, essentially. As to "The best condition is dying"... Meh. If your entire game is based exclusively around maximizing metagame that's it's own separate issue. This is meant to increase options, not completely replace martial combat with "Everything you're already doing, plus a whole lot more!" as that would be much more likely to create significant balance issues. "Shoving Tokens" is useful for making sure your party members can avoid opportunity attacks, knocking enemies off cliffs, removing disadvantage from ranged attack rolls... the list goes on. It's also much cooler to swing in on a chandelier than stand in front of a guy and trade punches until someone falls over. As to the second problem, yeah. I'm pretty well stumped. I like A5e's class-based improvements to social and exploration skills, but I also feel like it's not quite "Enough"... you know? Like it's great that Fighters can get bonuses to a couple of skills every few levels, but I feel like there needs to be more than that. More than just increased skill use. Mainly because Martials are much less likely to have decent bonuses to out of combat skill use (Due to their ability-score placement preferences) compared to Wizards who -also- gain out-of-combat knacks for exploration and stuff in the A5e system. But the best I can think of is explicitly allowing Martials to use Strength for Investigation Checks instead of Wisdom as they "Toss a Room". Literally flipping tables and yanking out dresser drawers to make a big mess. Which could work, I guess? But it just feels so very -narrow-. I sincerely feel like the skill system needs some kind of overhaul since it's covering two whole pillars of gamplay... Or maybe to be broken apart so there's Skills for Exploration and some new system for Social Interaction Skills? [/QUOTE]
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