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General Tabletop Discussion
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Thoughts on Improving Martials
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<blockquote data-quote="jmartkdr2" data-source="post: 8315910" data-attributes="member: 7017304"><p>My feeling on this is: 5e has these issues (assuming you consider them issues), but anything you do to fix them will be very un-5e in feel.</p><p></p><p>PF2 and 4e DnD both present elegant, balanced, workable fixes to these problems, because the basic idea is both completely in line with the design philosophy and baked-in to the core rules. Frankly all the suggestions you're taking are already in PF2, but better defined and supported. </p><p>PF2 might have overcorrected (casters can feel a bit weak), but that's the only core flaw (as opposed to 'design decision not everyone will enjoy')</p><p></p><p>But, in the interest of being positive: you can add maneuvers to martials if you like. I don't think there's a ton of subclasses that don't have complexity that aren't right next to sufficiently complex options - ie Champion might not work for you but Battlemaster probably will - and if you allow combat stunts you don't need a ton of rules to handle every special case. </p><p></p><p>Social encounters don't seem to be as bad - most people don't rely on class features for those anyways. They rp, lean on backgrounds and reputation, and so on - if there's a 'balance' problem, it's most often players talking over each other. </p><p></p><p>The issue I actually see sometimes is exploration being horribly unbalanced - rangers just win (boring), casters have a bunch of toys to play with, fighter hope Athletics will somehow be useful. I don't know how to solve this, but making trips slightly easier to pull off won't do it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jmartkdr2, post: 8315910, member: 7017304"] My feeling on this is: 5e has these issues (assuming you consider them issues), but anything you do to fix them will be very un-5e in feel. PF2 and 4e DnD both present elegant, balanced, workable fixes to these problems, because the basic idea is both completely in line with the design philosophy and baked-in to the core rules. Frankly all the suggestions you're taking are already in PF2, but better defined and supported. PF2 might have overcorrected (casters can feel a bit weak), but that's the only core flaw (as opposed to 'design decision not everyone will enjoy') But, in the interest of being positive: you can add maneuvers to martials if you like. I don't think there's a ton of subclasses that don't have complexity that aren't right next to sufficiently complex options - ie Champion might not work for you but Battlemaster probably will - and if you allow combat stunts you don't need a ton of rules to handle every special case. Social encounters don't seem to be as bad - most people don't rely on class features for those anyways. They rp, lean on backgrounds and reputation, and so on - if there's a 'balance' problem, it's most often players talking over each other. The issue I actually see sometimes is exploration being horribly unbalanced - rangers just win (boring), casters have a bunch of toys to play with, fighter hope Athletics will somehow be useful. I don't know how to solve this, but making trips slightly easier to pull off won't do it. [/QUOTE]
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