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Thoughts on Improving Martials
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8316023" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Nope. I've seen it IRL.</p><p></p><p>The thing is that at <em>low level </em>fighter-types are fine. No one truly cares that the fighter's stabbing people while the wizard moves up from firebolt and burning hands to fireball. Both are cool in their own way and do different but related things. And the casters have few enough spells that the non-casters can keep up.</p><p></p><p>It's when the wizard starts restructuring things that there are problems. To me the spell that marks the beginning of the end is Wall of Stone. It's when the wizard gets the ability to make <em>permanent </em>changes to the environment and to do useful things that can't be matched at all under lightly pressured conditions. (Under heavily pressured ones skills work and dead is dead - things just differ as to how).</p><p></p><p>So for most of the single digit levels things are fine and the rogue and fighter get excellent features at level 11. It's really when the levels hit the teens that we have problems. Most games do not, however, go that far.</p><p></p><p>But this is entirely independent from the issue:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some people like mechanically simple characters and others like mechanically complex and tactical ones</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some people like martial characters and others like spellcasters</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The people who want to play characters that are both martial <em>and </em>simple and the people who want to play characters that are both castery <em>and </em>complex are fine</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The people who want to play simple spellcasters tend to gravitate towards the warlock although this could be made better</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The people who want to play complex tactical fighters struggle.</li> </ul><p>This thread is about that last group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8316023, member: 87792"] Nope. I've seen it IRL. The thing is that at [I]low level [/I]fighter-types are fine. No one truly cares that the fighter's stabbing people while the wizard moves up from firebolt and burning hands to fireball. Both are cool in their own way and do different but related things. And the casters have few enough spells that the non-casters can keep up. It's when the wizard starts restructuring things that there are problems. To me the spell that marks the beginning of the end is Wall of Stone. It's when the wizard gets the ability to make [I]permanent [/I]changes to the environment and to do useful things that can't be matched at all under lightly pressured conditions. (Under heavily pressured ones skills work and dead is dead - things just differ as to how). So for most of the single digit levels things are fine and the rogue and fighter get excellent features at level 11. It's really when the levels hit the teens that we have problems. Most games do not, however, go that far. But this is entirely independent from the issue: [LIST] [*]Some people like mechanically simple characters and others like mechanically complex and tactical ones [*]Some people like martial characters and others like spellcasters [*]The people who want to play characters that are both martial [I]and [/I]simple and the people who want to play characters that are both castery [I]and [/I]complex are fine [*]The people who want to play simple spellcasters tend to gravitate towards the warlock although this could be made better [*]The people who want to play complex tactical fighters struggle. [/LIST] This thread is about that last group. [/QUOTE]
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