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Thoughts on Improving Martials
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8317345" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Oh, I totally missed that part of the conversation. </p><p></p><p>So I should have been clearer: I think you can totally surmount the "combat maneuver" issue you have. There's no shortage of ideas there between suggestions here, your own ideas, Level Up, PF2e, and so forth. Not that it's not a design challenge, but for me the far greater challenge is conceiving what the <em>non-combat </em>mechanics might look like (without rewriting 5e).</p><p></p><p>For some context, I've been "armchair designing" my own Fighter class for years – mainly for my own enjoyment and to fix issues that I perceive with that class (fully recognizing that survey data shows I'm in the minority). First was <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-warrior.535057/" target="_blank">The Warrior</a> and then more recently a <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/fighter-class-rewrite.677024/" target="_blank">Fighter rewrite</a> (not sure why that second link has my text all greyed out in dark mode – I made sure to remove color formatting from the post <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤷♂️" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" />).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think if you're willing to get a little funky with your design and think outside of the box, that's a surmountable issue.</p><p></p><p>Leadership as an example... yes that's skills, but it can also be... </p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">changing starting NPC reaction (Hostile, Indifferent, Friendly, or even more precise categories) based on reputation & circumstance (whereas Charisma-based skills work <em>within the assumption</em> that the DM solely defines a NPC's reaction)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">helping others (Help action or some variation thereof) even across great distances or across extend time periods... perhaps translating your success to another via a "lead by example" feature (useful in exploration, extended negotiation, and skill challenge type scenes)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">acquiring a sidekick or getting narrative control over determining when a NPC or animal companion transforms into a sidekick (merging d20 Leadership feat with sidekick rules from Tasha's)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">a feature allowing you to call upon and command your henchmen (e.g. torchbearer, shield-bearer, man-at-arms, animal tender) using concentration or downtime (tapping some of the ideas in the OSR)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">calling upon aid of friendly NPCs who you've previously performed a quest for, attaching a quantity of gold & scope of services that increases as you level (the d20 Star Wars Noble class had something very much like this IIRC)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">boosting crew morale on ships (the old AD&D Leadership nonweapon prof from Spelljammer basically did this) – other vehicular / crew boosts could be incorporated into this besides just morale</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">a boost to certain downtime actions associated with rulership or governing an organization / group (domain management "lite")</li> </ol><p>I think it's also worth noting that there are still game elements without clear mechanical implementation in 5e: Etiquette, Ventriloquism, Rope Use, and Decipher Script come to mind. For instance, I've seen a DM rule courtly etiquette as a History check, another DM tying it to the noble background, and another letting it just be role-play.</p><p></p><p>For instance, maybe Etiquette becomes part of the Leadership "martial school" (for lack of a better term), while Rope Use becomes part of the Campaigner "martial school", and Ventriloquism becomes part of the Infiltrator "martial school."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 8317345, member: 20323"] Oh, I totally missed that part of the conversation. So I should have been clearer: I think you can totally surmount the "combat maneuver" issue you have. There's no shortage of ideas there between suggestions here, your own ideas, Level Up, PF2e, and so forth. Not that it's not a design challenge, but for me the far greater challenge is conceiving what the [I]non-combat [/I]mechanics might look like (without rewriting 5e). For some context, I've been "armchair designing" my own Fighter class for years – mainly for my own enjoyment and to fix issues that I perceive with that class (fully recognizing that survey data shows I'm in the minority). First was [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-warrior.535057/']The Warrior[/URL] and then more recently a [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/fighter-class-rewrite.677024/']Fighter rewrite[/URL] (not sure why that second link has my text all greyed out in dark mode – I made sure to remove color formatting from the post 🤷♂️). I think if you're willing to get a little funky with your design and think outside of the box, that's a surmountable issue. Leadership as an example... yes that's skills, but it can also be... [LIST=1] [*]changing starting NPC reaction (Hostile, Indifferent, Friendly, or even more precise categories) based on reputation & circumstance (whereas Charisma-based skills work [I]within the assumption[/I] that the DM solely defines a NPC's reaction) [*]helping others (Help action or some variation thereof) even across great distances or across extend time periods... perhaps translating your success to another via a "lead by example" feature (useful in exploration, extended negotiation, and skill challenge type scenes) [*]acquiring a sidekick or getting narrative control over determining when a NPC or animal companion transforms into a sidekick (merging d20 Leadership feat with sidekick rules from Tasha's) [*]a feature allowing you to call upon and command your henchmen (e.g. torchbearer, shield-bearer, man-at-arms, animal tender) using concentration or downtime (tapping some of the ideas in the OSR) [*]calling upon aid of friendly NPCs who you've previously performed a quest for, attaching a quantity of gold & scope of services that increases as you level (the d20 Star Wars Noble class had something very much like this IIRC) [*]boosting crew morale on ships (the old AD&D Leadership nonweapon prof from Spelljammer basically did this) – other vehicular / crew boosts could be incorporated into this besides just morale [*]a boost to certain downtime actions associated with rulership or governing an organization / group (domain management "lite") [/LIST] I think it's also worth noting that there are still game elements without clear mechanical implementation in 5e: Etiquette, Ventriloquism, Rope Use, and Decipher Script come to mind. For instance, I've seen a DM rule courtly etiquette as a History check, another DM tying it to the noble background, and another letting it just be role-play. For instance, maybe Etiquette becomes part of the Leadership "martial school" (for lack of a better term), while Rope Use becomes part of the Campaigner "martial school", and Ventriloquism becomes part of the Infiltrator "martial school." [/QUOTE]
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