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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1060966" data-attributes="member: 5171">Well, personally, I'm done with this thread.  Felon, you're condescending and rude, and you top it off by trying to claim the moral high ground and get past all the "silliness" that you yourself started.  I call 'em like I see 'em, too, and if I see somebody acting like a pompous windbag, I will indeed take up the conversation.  For you to decide NOW that you were just doing harmless sparring while we were being jerks is extremely convenient for you.  Maybe you're clinically incapable of understanding your own rudeness.  Maybe you're one of those naturally abrasive people who doesn't understand why everyone overreacts to what they intend to be lighthearted verbal banter.  Regardless, I'm judging you by what I read, and you read like a condescending jerk.All that speaks to my opinion of you personally, or at least of what I've seen of you on this thread.  As far as the actual TOPIC is concerned, I think that the change would make handguns more powerful than they are in real life.  When I first said something to this effect, you said that I'd seen too many martial arts movies.  When I posted my thoughts on the matter, based on my training (none of which involves kicking the gun out of their hands or any other late-night action movie garbage like that), you said that you disagreed, but didn't really provide a ton of thinking for that opinion.  For the person who thought I was basing my opinion purely on cinematic entertainment, you haven't provided any information yourself about why you think that a rules change is in order -- beyond cinematic evidence of how guns would blow my guts all over the place if I tried any of the silly moves you assumed I'd be using.  Thanks, by the way -- multiple remarks about how I'd get blown away or gutted or punched full of holes was a cute little bit of imagistic intimidation, and I really appreciated it.  Thanks for making it personal.  If you had any actual evidence beyond the Clint Eastwood movies that are the opposite side of the coin to the stupid martial arts movies where the gun is just a prop that gets kicked out of the dude's hand (sigh), I'd love to hear it.Hey, I'll even start -- how about the stastical fact that the gun most likely to shoot a police officer is his own gun?  Admittedly, police officers have a difficult situation, in that there are very few circumstances where they're allowed to open fire.  This results in a lot of times when the officer is holding a gun on somebody saying, "Do this, or I will be forced to open fire."  And yet, despite their training, there are times when some whacked-out criminal is able to lunge in, catching the officer off-guard and moving into a situation where they're struggling over the gun -- which then goes off, sometimes hitting the officer himself.  At the same time, there are other occasions when the officer was not holding someone at gunpoint -- when it was a firefight, and the person just lunged at the cop, got into an ugly struggle, and got away with the gun.I'm not saying that such a situation should cause the rules to change -- should make guns any more vulnerable or less dangerous or anything.  What I AM saying is that it seems like your interpretation is an attempt to change the rules in order to make more pleasant flavor text.  You assume that unless two people are grappling by d20 rules, they are not touching each other, whereas I assume that if I'm unarmed and my opponent has a gun and I'm adjacent to him, any flavor text about what's going on that round HAS to involve me whacking at his gun hand to avoid me being shot at point-blank range.  Only someone with a ton of gun training (ie, a Gunslinger) should be able to shoot me in the middle of that situation without me getting some chance to knock the gun aside as he fires (ie, my attack of opportunity, which I only get if I'm armed or trained in Combat Martial Arts).</blockquote>

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