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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1061377" data-attributes="member: 5171">But see, you haven't actually submitted any evidence of how guns blow guts all over the world.  I understand that you take this as a given.  I take it as a given that a gun in close quarters is less useful than a knife, and when I was challenged on that, I provided evidence.  I haven't heard you provide evidence on how a gun is so easy to use in close combat that it should be able to fire as an Attack of Opportunity, when no other ranged weapon can do so.If you still disagree with me about guns and their utility in close combat, that's fine -- but my understanding from criminal statistics was that most handgun deaths were caused from shots of between ten and twenty-five feet away.  The shots that were so close as to leave close-range gunshot residue on the victim were fairly rare, either due to execution-style deaths or  surprise shots.  Take away execution-style and surprise shots, and there aren't a ton of instances.  I'm not saying that guns are useless in close quarters by any stretch, but I don't think it's as easy and viable as you're making it sound -- which is easy and viable enough to use in an AoO.  Again, that was my understanding.  If you've got evidence to the contrary, fire away.  Mine could be outdated.On another argument, weighted throwing knives, darts, and grenades are pretty easy to throw -- the latter requires no training or proficiencies whatsoever, and requires very little muscle  -- but you can't do those things as attacks of opportunity.  It's restricted to melee actions. If I were a player in a campaign where a DM made that house rule about handguns, I'd be taking Lightning Reflexes, one level in Fast Hero for Evasion, and pestering the DM to let me drop a grenade five feet away as an Attack of Opportunity.  Or better yet, I'd get those thermite puppies, or whichever ones it is that do a ton of damage and have a 5-foot burst radius, so I wouldn't even be in the area of effect.I'm over it, although I'd suggest that a slight behavioral change on your part would result in you being driven nuts less often.I've got no problem with "dangerous to jostle" (and easy to use is fine with me, too).  Heck, in a realistic campaign, I'd be all over making people take checks every time something happened to them.  Fall off a balconey while holding your gun?  Roll to see if it goes off. I just don't agree with you that "easy to use" means that it gets to be useable as an AoO.  In terms of reality, I doubt that an average Joe is going to have the reaction ability that you give him.  I DO believe that a trained veteran could do what you suggest in reality (that is, fire a gun at a target 5' away as an AoO) , but in d20 terms, that trained person has burned a feat or two on it and has a decent BAB.  I'd also want to make sure that the shooter still provoked an AoO from taking that shot (barring Gunslinger close-shooting ability), because that would balance things nicely.  Actually, if that rule remains in place and we're clear about it, then I think we're both happy:1) Shooter is adjacent to Opponent1.  Opponent1 tries to run past Shooter.  Shooter takes close-quarters AoO shot.  Opponent1 has no melee weapon or combat martial art skill, and cannot take an AoO.  He likely gets shot. 2) Shooter is adjacent to Opponent2.  Opp2 tries to run past Shooter, who takes a close-quarters AoO shot.  Opp2 has a melee weapon (or Combat Martial Arts), and can therefore take an AoO on the Shooter as Shooter starts firing.  If Opp2 has the brains God gave an eggplant, he attempts to disarm Shooter before that shot goes off -- or if Opp2 is a chainsaw wielder or high-level martial artist, he can make that melee attack something to worry about.  In that case, the Shooter might not WANT to fire recklessly in close quarters, because his opponent has either the training or the equipment to make that a bad idea.So, while I would still disagree with you on whether it should be an automatic ability or not, I don't see AoO-shots as game-breaking.As a compromise, how would you feel about lumping it as an ability under "Advanced Firearms Proficiency"?  You can autofire without the -4, and you can take single-shot AoOs with a handgun.That way I'm happy because it's not quite so trivial and easy to get there, but it's part of a feat that a lot of people take already (if only to get to Burst Fire down the road).Heh. Sounds good to me.  And, provided that a close-fire shot still provokes an AoO under ordinary circumstances, I see it as a pump-up, but not a gamebreaker in most circumstances,Holy mackeral, I came for the fight and a conversation broke out!</blockquote>

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