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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5592869" data-attributes="member: 11300">Hello AeroDM,Interesting ideas and thread - I'm really enjoying your various discussions so please keep the ball rolling. By the way, using the term "economy" was fine by me - I understood what you were conveying.A possible idea if you divide the time playing as:- Meta/Out-of-campaign Mode: Character creation, determination and adjustment, rules discussion, instances in the game where a period of time is passed, determination of who's picking up the takeaway.- Exploration Mode: Fairly free-form with exchange of ideas both in character and out. Basically, the players have a combined turn occasionally turning to the DM/GM for further input or reactions. Divided into Exploration and Conversation.- Combat Mode: Structured and ordered exchange of action and judged/resolved reaction.In regards to your three economies:1) Character Creation, Planning and Determination- Exists almost purely in out-of-campaign mode. This can be as complex or as simplistic as the rest of the game demands. The more complex, the more pressure is placed upon economies 2) and 3). As much information needs to be taken out of economy 2) and into economy 1) as possible to produce a game with fewer calculations and greater fluidity of play.2) The Economy of Actions in a Round- This exists almost purely within the realm of combat mode (not counting an overly mechanical playing of 4e skill challenges). It becomes about optimizing all the possible juice out of each action in a round. This relates somewhat to economy 1) and how actions are resolved and in 4e almost pre-planning a routine or program of sequential powers to optimize a group's actions in a round.- Some enjoy this style of play but to me, it becomes a game within a game that divorces itself from the genuine story of the combat and the true terror that characters would experience encountering monsters. A player does what is tactically most suitable rather than worrying about what is most representative of what their character would do.3) Play Dynamics for the Character's Player- The interesting thing is that economy 3) is spread across the three modes of play and thus is perhaps a good reason why you think it so important. Some players enjoy "building" or "crafting" a character (rather than "choosing" a character as I think you have mentioned previously).- During exploration/conversation, the player wants to feel that they (through their character) have valid ideas that will impact the world the DM/GM has crafted and that will impact the success (and possibly failure) of the group of players sitting around the table and the characters they are playing.- During combat mode, there has been an exponential increase in things to track - to the point where I think 4e with all its status effects to remember or mark down has begun to overburden the play. While I think 3e kept a reasonable medium in this regard, it was stung by two related issues: actions (particularly high-level magic) that were tedious and time-consuming to successfully resolve, and the time lag between instances of a player's input. 4e addressed these quite well although the time lag issue produced a problem of it's own in terms of combat grind (something that MM3+ and essentials has looked to address with more powerful and dangerous monsters). I'm still not quite sure they have got the balance right although lower-level 3e play and that high heroic/low paragon-level 4e play are in my opinion the ones that come closest. If you could distill the essence of those two things together, you might be into a winner.However, the thing that 3e and 4e lose most quickly by having such a dominant "economy 2)" is the connection to the campaign world highlighted by OD&D, AD&D and early 2e play. By having minimal mechanics in the way, the players were encouraged to interact more directly with their imaginations and the world their characters were living in. It was a game more about exploration, discovery and wonder than the pursuit of successful action resolution. Importantly, many groups have been able to translate such play into both 3e and 4e but it is more through the group's play-style and determined momentum than the 3e/4e rules guiding them along such a path; an argument could easily be made that the 3e/4e rules sets actively push such groups from such a path.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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