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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 1207157" data-attributes="member: 2205">I suppose metagaming can be broad, but I don't see how your term metatextual (which; granted -- I haven't seen defined yet anyway) means anything different.  I don't see how it's catch-all or that it doesn't make any sense, though, unless you're looking for something more precise.  If so, I can't imagine what kind of precision you'd be looking for.OK, this I can see.  In my case, this is something I do subconsciously.  I don't actually give metatextual considerations much thought beyond the occasional "how is he going to get out of this in two more chapters?" kind of thing.And personally, I like to compare RPGs to novels.  Although I'm well aware that what makes a good novel doesn't make a good game and vice versa, its because of my love of fantasy novels that I got into RPGs in the first place.  The closer the game emulates the novel experience, the happier I am.I could have you go on.  I think d20 (or even D&D, although that makes the assumption that the default "setting" of D&D works with the story/game) works just fine at facilitating the story.  Character creation is relatively complex, but that just means you have more detail about your character to start with.  The game itself is not nearly as complex; in play you just roll d20s and look up your modifiers on your character sheet.  This leads to (especially with familiarity) the rules being transparent and unobtrusive, which is what facilitates the story.  GURPS is similar in many regards, as it also has complicated chargen but relatively simple task resolution beyond that.  However, GURPS also tends to promote extremely cautious play, and that's not the story I want to have my group develop.If you're refering to games that have Narrativist rules that are specifically story-oriented, I'm not a fan of such systems, and my experience with them is that they are more intrusive rather than helpful.  They also tend to work on a metagame level, which leaves a sour taste in my mouth.Fair enough.  As I said above, I do those things primarily subconsciously rather than on purpose, but I can see your point.  Be that as it may, the examples you use of non-literate characters knowing where to look for something because of text that the players could read, for instance, don't seem to be the same kind of metatextual experience you're describing in this post.  I see a real disparity between enjoying a book because you can discern the pacing, symbolism, or what have you the author uses, and being OK with players making decisions for their characters that are completely irrationaly from their characters' point of view.  Although granted, you did make the caveat that in-game justification is a requirement.  Of course, if you do that, I don't see what the big deal is.  You can never completely excise metagame considerations from play, so it seems to be an implicit assumption of anyone who wants to minimize it that you don't really have a problem with it per se as long as your decisions are justified in game.  Maybe some people want to push even beyond that where possible, but I don't really see how that could be done anyway.Agree, I like games that feature some combat.  I want combat to be scary, but not so scary that players look for any way to avoid it (unless that's the character's schtick, of course.)  Again, as I said above, one of the reasons I picked d20 as well.</blockquote>

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