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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FreeTheSlaves" data-source="post: 5539817" data-attributes="member: 9952">Heh, this illustrates my point though. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The original paladin suffered from:- excessive MAD (str, wis, cha + usual con & dex), which in turn led to- unusual specializations (str/cha, str/wis or cha/wis) each with a glaring hole in the build- the loss of iconic features such as the mount or aura of courage, which were replaced with- the original level 2 utilities...- and then we've got a mish/mash of strikes and smites with barely a consistent theme throughout them- and topping the lot there's a divine challenge that clashes with the basic combat option of charging- I haven't mentioned the absence of the lance <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Regarding the 3 to 4 edition being an update or a new game, who can tell? There clearly is a schism with 4E being a new game, but would it have been more successful by 4E being an update of 3E? Well WotC put their money on it being a new game. They can probably guess by now if the move was the best, but even if it wasn't wholly optimal they've sunk a lot of capital (not just $ I'm talking about) into the 4E we have and I imagine there needs to be a minimum edition life cycle before they can go back to the same customers and sell a new rule-set.5E will illustrate what were right & wrong moves to extent, I say extent because the needs of new players and game development will have shifted the goal posts and tilted the playing field beyond what we're currently discussing.But for the record and without any research to back me up, I'm for 4E being an update.</blockquote>

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