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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 3481780" data-attributes="member: 9789">I remembered the other problem I have with the CD rule:&nbsp; undead have d12s for HD.This means they're averaging 6.5 HP per HD (and most undead have more HD than their CR).&nbsp; Turning as damage does 1d6/level, or avg. 3.5.&nbsp; And if saved against, 1.25.&nbsp; That just doesn't seem like a lot of damage:&nbsp; just over half at best, and under a fifth at worst.I added + Cha to the numbers above, which helps a bit at low levels and doesn't do much at high levels.&nbsp; I can't tell if the intent behind the turning damage thing was to honestly make clerics use two to five turns to kill a group of undead, or if they just didn't think about how the damage at level compared to undead HP.&nbsp; Or maybe the &quot;at least this does something even if they fail their save&quot; idea helps to balance all this out.&nbsp; Or maybe the point is that your party is doing damage too, so spending one or two turns per encounter would probably be enough to make a huge impact, and that's good enough.I think I'd almost rather have it closer to the &quot;all or nothing&quot; way, although I'm not sure.&nbsp; Perhaps change the damage to 1d12 / level, with no damage on a save.&nbsp; Other thoughts?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 3481780, member: 9789"] I remembered the other problem I have with the CD rule: undead have d12s for HD. This means they're averaging 6.5 HP per HD (and most undead have more HD than their CR). Turning as damage does 1d6/level, or avg. 3.5. And if saved against, 1.25. That just doesn't seem like a lot of damage: just over half at best, and under a fifth at worst. I added + Cha to the numbers above, which helps a bit at low levels and doesn't do much at high levels. I can't tell if the intent behind the turning damage thing was to honestly make clerics use two to five turns to kill a group of undead, or if they just didn't think about how the damage at level compared to undead HP. Or maybe the "at least this does something even if they fail their save" idea helps to balance all this out. Or maybe the point is that your party is doing damage too, so spending one or two turns per encounter would probably be enough to make a huge impact, and that's good enough. I think I'd almost rather have it closer to the "all or nothing" way, although I'm not sure. Perhaps change the damage to 1d12 / level, with no damage on a save. Other thoughts? [/QUOTE]

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