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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyeshet" data-source="post: 3482887" data-attributes="member: 18363">Personally, I tend to think that Turning should be lessened rather than removed. At present only the Cleric (which is already powerful enough) and the Paladin typically have access to the ability. What if it were returned to its roots? The whole turn undead motif came about from the belief that vampires could not approach a holy symbol wielded by one with strong faith - usually / especially a cleric. This was expanded to all undead eventually (ignoring, ironically enough, that fae were also supposedly repelled by holy symbols, places, etc). So what if it were restored to its original form, namely that undead (and perhaps fae, ethereal / incorporeal creatures, and perhaps outsiders of opposite alignment) could not approach within 15 feet of a cleric wielding a holy symbol as a full round action. They are not harmed by the symbol, but they cannot approach any nearer. Those the cleric may wish to protect would have to stand within 10 feet of the cleric, as any farther and the undead, etc could attack them. So the undead, etc wander around the cleric's radius attacking those easier to reach, but the cleric himself is safe. In some ways it would act like the Sanctuary spell. So long as the cleric is doing nothing but Turning he is safe. Hmm, the creatures could make a will save to attempt to bypass the barrier - and whether they succeeded or not they would need to make a new will save each round they attempted to bypass it. Success by less than 5 would allow them to approach within 5 ft of the cleric (cancelling the protection those standing near the cleric might otherwise have due to being near him), and success by more than 5 would allow the undead, etc to act as if the protection were not present (for the succeeding undead, etc) until the clerics next initiative. Perhaps the could move at his base speed (typically around 30 ft a round) with the distance of protection diminishing to 10 ft (and those seeking his protection having to be within 5 feet of the cleric - and subject to attacks by creatures with reach weapons, natural or artificial). However, if he approached an undead, etc, then the creature would gain a +4 to their will save to resist the aura (effectively what this is). So the cleric could, in movie / story style, move about the room with those seeking shelter huddling against him, weaving around the undead as they sought an exit. A non-cleric could take a feat (Conviction, or some such) to have access to the same ability.The idea needs more work, I admit, as I am simply brainstorming at the moment. The general idea is that turning causes no harm - merely limits approach similar to the sanctuary spell. Creatures it works against (perhaps more than merely undead) could make will saves to approach anyway, and they would gain a bonus to their save if the cleric is purposefully moving towards him. Those protected by nearness to the cleric would be at risk if they walked beyond the reach of the aura or attacked, etc. Ranged attacks could still be made as normal against the cleric, and if he took damage he would need to make a concentration check to keep the effect going. Perhaps he would need to make a concentration check to initiate the effect and again each round to keep it going. If so, then the Will save would be against this concentration check - giving the cleric a bit of an advantage, as skills increase faster than saves. So even higher level undead would have a hard time working against it - except that perhaps they could gain their current Turn resistance as a bonus against this will save (and maybe their charisma as well?). The effect weakens (in distance it reaches, perhaps also in the save necessary to bypass it?) when the cleric is moving. All in all, the idea is in its infancy, but I think it has some promise. The main thing it does not do is deal with Rebuking undead - particularly in the form of commanding undead. On the other hand, if it deals with more than undead, then it would still be useful to evil clerics. It might work against fae, undead, and outsiders of opposing alignments, with domain abilities expanding this to elementals of a given type, vermin, animals, plants, etc. Perhaps feats could empower this - such that instead of merely holding them at bay, instead they do not see / hear those thus protected, cower instead of stay back, etc. All sorts of ideas come to mind. As for rebuking, that could be a domain ability, or perhaps those undead, etc that fail by more than 5 or 10 are subject to any Suggestion that encourages them to leave the area or seek another target? Again, this is merely brainstorming on my part.</blockquote>

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