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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 6813709" data-attributes="member: 58172">For me, pointing out the agile athletic aspects of Strength is probably the most important.This means there is a go-to ability to represent the agile ‘athlete’. This athlete jumps, climbs, somersaults, and tumbles. In order to be an ‘acrobat’, a person has to easily lift ones own bodyweight, to pull oneself up, push oneself up, swing from vine-to-vine, catch oneself if falling, spring up from prone, and so on. A gymnast must have high Strength. Running fast and brawling hand-to-hand, wrestling, flipping, and so on, are also part of the bodys *agility* of Strength.While Strength is useful to the Fighter class in combat, this increased awareness of its use in agility, can hopefully make it more useful out of combat. It is the go-to ability to physically interact with the environment, like climbing walls, and doing jackass stunts.Moreover, the suggestion to use Strength for Armor Class, means that high-Strength combatants can afford to wear Light and Medium armors. We would see more heroes in Medieval chain shirts, rather than in Renaissance plate suits. This is good for medievalesque setting protection.The armor caps on Dex AC would also apply on Str AC, for the same reason, restricting ‘Reflex’ agility. This means, top-percentile Strength heroes would be swimming in their chain tunics. While the average-Strength heroes who get conscripted into war, bulk up inside heavier armors. This phenomenon is true to life. Im less sure that Strength makes sense for the Fortitude save. Strength implies physical activity, and this promotes general health. But there is no real correlation between exceptional Strength and exceptional health. Longevity, combating diseases, even persevering against exhaustion, have less to do with Strength. Moreover, Constitution is precisely responsible for these aspects of physical stamina.At first the Constitution-Charisma seems like an odd couple. But quantifying the physical aspects and the nonphysical aspects of survival, is useful. There is an ability to represent endurance and and ability to represent fate. In addition to the magical sense, the mental sense of the raw will to live, has Charisma continue some of the 4e uses of Charisma. The Fortitude (Con-Cha) save would also versus psychic damage.The Constitution-Charisma coupling would make sense if we see Charisma having more use in hit points. Charisma quantifies the nonphysical aspects of survival. I would like to see certain classes be able to use Charisma for their hit points.For example, my impression of the Warlock concept is, the Warlock doesnt look tough, but is supernaturally tough, and hard to kill. Similarly, the frightful Hag, the Bogie, and so on. Their Charisma connects with the spookier supernatural influences, whether devilish or fey. In the case, of the Warlock, may allow them to substitute their Charisma instead of Constitution, when determining class hit points.In the case of the Paladin, this knight survives by the providence of Divine fate, and persists beyond what is naturally possible. In this case, I would like to see the Paladin class use both the physical toughness of Constitution and the supernatural toughness of Charisma for exceptional survivability. For similar reasons but with different flavor, the Berserker Barbarian is a good candidate to benefit from both Constitution and Charisma.In sum, I am beginning to see the odd couple Constitution and Charisma as a feature, not a bug.I find it impossible to separate the ‘search’ of Intelligence and the ‘perception’ of Wisdom. I get the difference, but implementing such a difference in game, is vague at best. Combining them together is, for me, a relief.Both are equally responsible for powers of observation, at least as far as reactive saves go, both help. When relevant for a proactive action, the difference between noticing versus interpreting, can be made clear enough when translating what a player wants the hero to do into game mechanics.It might help to call the Intelligence-Wisdom save the ‘Perception’ save, with the understanding that it can ‘see thru charms and fears, see thru illusions, and detect hiding’. Observational skills generally. By adding Intelligence-Wisdom together, the Human gains an edge over animals that have high Wisdom but low Intelligence, which feels more accurate.Brainstorming. If each ability corresponds to two saves, then the correlations might look something like the following:Str ≈ Reflex, FortitudeDex ≈ Reflex, PerceptionCon ≈ Fortitude, WillInt ≈ Reflex, PerceptionWis ≈ Perception, WillCha ≈ Fortitude, WillLooking at it from the other direction, is the following:Reflex ≈ Str, Dex, IntFortitude ≈ Str, Con, ChaWill ≈ Con, Wis, ChaPerception ≈ Dex, Int, WisIn 3e, the innovation of 3e saving throws is part of a systemization of 2e with its myriad of different ways to adjudicate challenges.In 4e, the innovation of having each save benefit from two abilities, was part of an effort to balance the values of the abilities. Because putting a high score in Intelligence has the same opportunity cost as putting a high score in Dexterity, and because the abilities are the fundament of all mechanical balance, it is problematic if subpar abilities exist.In 5e, the main difficulty of adding abilities is the constraints of bounded accuracy. Adding the abilities is important to avoid ‘dumping’ abilities without consequence. But has to be thought-thru cautiously.For me, the discussion of these couplings in light of earlier D&D editions, is fruitful because it helps clarify the differences between the abilities more sharply.Reflex (Str-Dex): It is valuable to me to utilize better the agile aspects of Strength, especially for athletic gymnastic stunts that ‘aim’ bodyweight. The difference between the macro kinesthetic agility of the body (Strength) versus the micro careful precision of the body (Dexterity), mostly the hand, becomes clear and useful.Fortitude (Con-Cha): The need to quantify nonphysical survivability, with the use of Charisma in related contexts of ‘luck’, ‘innate magic’, and the ‘will’ to survive, is useful.Will/Perception (Int-Wis): It is difficult to separate Intelligence and Wisdom, and to combine them in contexts where both seem relevant, is satisfying.Even if continuing with six ability saves, the discussion of these couplings is useful to better understand when to which ability. Coupling them into three saves also has system benefits of more ability balance and gameplay conveniences of simplifying adjudication into three general kinds of threats.</blockquote>

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