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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dalamar" data-source="post: 2777004" data-attributes="member: 358">It didn't even cross my mind to put an explicit limit on the living weapon maneuver when, according to the rules (PHB glossary, IIRC), a two-handed weapon is an object of the character's size. Following that logic, a creature or object larger than the character would be too big to wield as a weapon (and a cat is a light weapon for a human, and rats are too small to be used as weapons).But I just took a deeper look at that, and I realised that it is pretty darn penalized for a medium creature. To throw somebody 10ft (the max distance) from you, you take a -10 penalty (-4 improvised, -2 inapproriately sized, -4 two range increments) to your attack and can use, at most, your second-highest attack (since the duration of a Pin is 1 round, which means it ends just before your turn on the next round). You also need a good Str (to be able to actually win the grapple checks) and a good Dex (to be able to hit something with all those penalties).It starts to seem like a really undesirable action. And yes, I realise that the version I had had all these flaws too. It just seems like you'd never use this unless you were fighting something way below your level in CR (especially true for monks with their lowered attack bonus), in which case you'd probably still be better off just taking a normal full attack instead of using at least three attacks (initiate grapple, pin, throw) to throw somebody.How can we make Throw an equally desirable option as Sunder, Trip, Bullrush and Disarm are? Are we approaching this all wrong, shouldn't throwing be based on Bull Rush (moving somebody), its closest equivalent?How about:ThrowPrereq: Str 13, Power Attack, Improved Bull RushBenefit: When performing a Bull Rush, you don't have to move with your target to move them more than 5ft.</blockquote>

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