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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Throwing down the Tyranny of the Spellcaster.
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<blockquote data-quote="Andor" data-source="post: 5863213" data-attributes="member: 1879"><p>No. There is a problem here, and that is availability of magic. Traditionally D&D worlds have portrayed magic as something with a very high access cost. To be a wizard takes years of difficult study and practice while you learn to gargle the star spangled banner while bending your fingers into geomtrically imrpobable tangle and holding an image of impossible things in your head. To be a Sorcerer requires a skanky grandmother who was not picky about her sleeping companions. To be a Psionisist requires putting up with endless years of the other children taunting you for your premature baldness.</p><p></p><p>Magic is not something everyone does. Therefore not everyone should do it. The figher does not throw fireballs or leap over small giants in a single bound. </p><p></p><p>There are other ways to approach fantasy. In a game like Earthdawn or Heroquest or Worldtree everyone has magic, it is part of everyday life. Every class has access to exraordinary powers. And frankly if there isn't some absurd requirement to gain access to magical powers this just makes sense. If there was no barrier to entry then you'ld have to be an idiot to not use magic just because you think swords are cooler. </p><p></p><p>But that's not traditional D&D. In D&D magic is hard, tricky, rare stuff and not everyone can do it. </p><p></p><p>Now, balance. At the end of the day balance boils down to the notion that a guy who refuses to use the proper tools for the job should be just as effective at it as a guy who performs the job correctly. A monk should be just as effective in combat as a fighter fully kitted out with armour and weapons. Really? Who here favors the unarmed guy in a Chuck Norris vs Main Battle Tank scenario? A rogue should be just as good at unlocking doors as a wizard casting knock. Ok. Which is faster, lockpicks or a shaped charge? </p><p></p><p>Magic is a technology in D&D. Technology makes you better at things, that's why we use it. It has drawbacks as well. It you want a 2' wide by 3' deep hole dug the quickest and easist thing to do is grab a shovel. You could call in a backhoe or bulldozer but it will take longer and cost more. If you want a 20' x 30' hole on the other hand.... Shaped charges will get through a door no problem but lockpicks are quieter and less obvious. Yes, years of dedicated combat training might allow an unarmed fighter to defeate a shmoe in plate mail with a sword, but then again shouldn't the guy with the fighters kit have just as many years of training? Who really thinks that for two combatants of equal skill a suit of armour and a deadly weapon should provide no tangible advantage? </p><p></p><p>So no. I do not favor fighters having just as many tricks as mages or bringing mages down to the general level of suck of the rest of the party. I would however be perfectly fine with a mages general combat "at-wills" being no more effective than a javalin and making all his other magics rituals that take rounds or minutes. Who really imagines the mighty and arcane rituals of wizardry taking no longer to perform than a punch to the face?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Andor, post: 5863213, member: 1879"] No. There is a problem here, and that is availability of magic. Traditionally D&D worlds have portrayed magic as something with a very high access cost. To be a wizard takes years of difficult study and practice while you learn to gargle the star spangled banner while bending your fingers into geomtrically imrpobable tangle and holding an image of impossible things in your head. To be a Sorcerer requires a skanky grandmother who was not picky about her sleeping companions. To be a Psionisist requires putting up with endless years of the other children taunting you for your premature baldness. Magic is not something everyone does. Therefore not everyone should do it. The figher does not throw fireballs or leap over small giants in a single bound. There are other ways to approach fantasy. In a game like Earthdawn or Heroquest or Worldtree everyone has magic, it is part of everyday life. Every class has access to exraordinary powers. And frankly if there isn't some absurd requirement to gain access to magical powers this just makes sense. If there was no barrier to entry then you'ld have to be an idiot to not use magic just because you think swords are cooler. But that's not traditional D&D. In D&D magic is hard, tricky, rare stuff and not everyone can do it. Now, balance. At the end of the day balance boils down to the notion that a guy who refuses to use the proper tools for the job should be just as effective at it as a guy who performs the job correctly. A monk should be just as effective in combat as a fighter fully kitted out with armour and weapons. Really? Who here favors the unarmed guy in a Chuck Norris vs Main Battle Tank scenario? A rogue should be just as good at unlocking doors as a wizard casting knock. Ok. Which is faster, lockpicks or a shaped charge? Magic is a technology in D&D. Technology makes you better at things, that's why we use it. It has drawbacks as well. It you want a 2' wide by 3' deep hole dug the quickest and easist thing to do is grab a shovel. You could call in a backhoe or bulldozer but it will take longer and cost more. If you want a 20' x 30' hole on the other hand.... Shaped charges will get through a door no problem but lockpicks are quieter and less obvious. Yes, years of dedicated combat training might allow an unarmed fighter to defeate a shmoe in plate mail with a sword, but then again shouldn't the guy with the fighters kit have just as many years of training? Who really thinks that for two combatants of equal skill a suit of armour and a deadly weapon should provide no tangible advantage? So no. I do not favor fighters having just as many tricks as mages or bringing mages down to the general level of suck of the rest of the party. I would however be perfectly fine with a mages general combat "at-wills" being no more effective than a javalin and making all his other magics rituals that take rounds or minutes. Who really imagines the mighty and arcane rituals of wizardry taking no longer to perform than a punch to the face? [/QUOTE]
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