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<blockquote data-quote="Bluenose" data-source="post: 5864661" data-attributes="member: 49017">Which, to make my point clear, is exactly how they weren't at most levels in 2e. High level Mages required More XPs to level up than other classes.But then, everything is getting more damage, and more attacks,&nbsp; including the spell caster and the monsters. Hit point inflation is also a factor, but didn't keep up with the increased damage. So instead of being a tough fighter who could stands minutes in combat with a dragon, you're going down in twelve seconds.Although you're still low on hit points and, often, AC. But it's one thing Rogues got that's an improvement over Thieves.Right, spell casters got given some nice stuff.No, they weren't. High level characters routinely save on 6+/7+. Without any magic item bonuses. The absolute minimum Save DC for a 9th level spell in 3e is 23 (10 + 9 (spell level) +4 (minimum characteristic of 19)). If it targets a weak save, that is +6. From rolling 7+ to save to rolling 17+ to save is not an improvement.Yes, it's harder to take monsters down with hit point damage, and they do more damage. Which since their saving throws are generally worse than they used to be makes casting spells at them far more effective than doing hit point damage. The latter being the only option for people who aren't spell casters, of course.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bluenose, post: 5864661, member: 49017"] Which, to make my point clear, is exactly how they [B]weren't [/B]at most levels in 2e. High level Mages required More XPs to level up than other classes. But then, everything is getting more damage, and more attacks, including the spell caster and the monsters. Hit point inflation is also a factor, but didn't keep up with the increased damage. So instead of being a tough fighter who could stands minutes in combat with a dragon, you're going down in twelve seconds. Although you're still low on hit points and, often, AC. But it's one thing Rogues got that's an improvement over Thieves. Right, spell casters got given some nice stuff. No, they weren't. High level characters routinely save on 6+/7+. Without any magic item bonuses. The absolute minimum Save DC for a 9th level spell in 3e is 23 (10 + 9 (spell level) +4 (minimum characteristic of 19)). If it targets a weak save, that is +6. From rolling 7+ to save to rolling 17+ to save is not an improvement. Yes, it's harder to take monsters down with hit point damage, and they do more damage. Which since their saving throws are generally worse than they used to be makes casting spells at them far more effective than doing hit point damage. The latter being the only option for people who aren't spell casters, of course. [/QUOTE]

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