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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6966613" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Eh, I do agree with you that 30 levels is a lot, HoML has 20 levels instead. I think that 4e has no real issue with 'humanoid ranking', there are loads of creatures out there of all levels, kobolds of 8th level for instance! They are obviously not 'rank-and-file' creatures, that high level kobold probably won't show up with other kobolds, or maybe just a few minionized ones. Likewise with orcs, goblins, etc. Often there are interesting versions of a variety of levels, such that you don't really have to abide by a hierarchy. I won't say the hierarchy is DEAD, kobolds are, as a rule, weaker than ogres for instance. OTOH it was absolute back in AD&D days, ALL kobolds had 1/2 HD and all ogres had 4+4 HD. There could be chiefs or whatever, but they were firmly attached to their groups, not separate higher level individuals that showed up on their own. I think 4e is a lot more open in this sense, personally.</p></blockquote><p></p>