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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 5825006" data-attributes="member: 92511">Far be it from me to stick my nose into this part of the conversation [though, I guess, apparently not], but I don't believe anyone here is saying that.And, I believe, avin, you posted in this thread or some other about the fact you only play Dark Sun nad Planescape and homebrews...so those that don't?....are they have badwrongfun?I've never heard anyone argue so vehemently against halflings and gnomes. Nor so "in favor" of tieflings. Because they're in Planescape?Is that the defining factor now? How does this make you any "better/worse" than those who want to hold/bring back/enjoy a traditional D&D or even "Tolkienesque" fantasy?aaaand, there it is again.In the annuls of fantasy literature...or what we take as "fantasy" literature now that was once heroic tale-telling, Beowulf, the Morte D'Artur, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, the Tuatha de Danaan in the Book of Invasions, etc...Teiflings are to Halflings what halflings are to...?Well...ya know...he kinda did. D&D, from the day one, made no bones about beign based, largely, off of Tolkien's (amongst others) work. In the attempt/idea that you could have "individual characters" that played, kinda, a sort of table-top wargame.Would halflings have been in Basic D&D if not for Tolkien? Would Balors (which were originally published in the monsters section of OD&D as Balrogs)? Who/where do you think Orcs come from, exactly?The elves of Tolkien were taken/envisioned, without argument, from lonnnng established elf and fairy Celtic and Breton folklore. The dwarves from Germanic and Norse folklore. Rangers/Aragorn (and thus, "half-elves") were arguably his intermingled with the concept of people who had met/mingled/spent time in the fairie world. Give it another 20 or so years...the original creator of Tieflings will rouse his mighty head and have his place among the D&D greats...it's just not now/yet.Because, I severely doubt you will argue, the 4e tiefling is not the 2e tiefling. The 2e originator of the tiefling idea, will be great among [TTRPG gamer] men...and women. Arguably, EGG might get some credit, since Iuz the Cambion was a known character/concept in Greyhawk since gods know when. But be that as it may... Could not agree more.But statements about the lack of necessity for halflings or gnomes (which appear in a great many Germanic cultures, as well as Brownies and assorted other fairy appear in the legends of the UK and seem to have been lumped into the D&D gnome...where'd the Rumplestilskin tale come from? I don't actually recall at the moment), cuz you don't see or have players using them in Planescape does not seem to echo this sentiment.--SD</blockquote>

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