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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 9169972" data-attributes="member: 467">Just for giggles, let's look at 7th level characters by class and see if we can tease out any useful patterns. Note: I am going to assume +4 for primary stat bonuses and +2 for secondary stat bonuses, as well as average hit points.Barbarian (berzerker):Defense: 74 HP, AC 16, damage resistance BPS, Dex save AdvantageOffense: Three attacks +7 doing 1d12+6 each (Note: frenzy)Utility: increased speed, strength check advantage, initiative advantageNote: rage is 4x per long restBard (lore):Defense: 32 HP, AC 14, countercharm, cutting words, Offense: 1 attack +7 doing 2d8 (cantrip)Utility: Bardic inspiration (d8) 4 per short rest, expertiseSpells: 3 cantrips, 12 spells known, 4-3-3-1Note: Lore bard can learn 2 of those known spells from any list.Cleric (life):Defense: 46 HP, AC 20 (heavy armor), blessed healer, Offense: 1 attack +7 doing 2d8 (cantrip), turn/destroy undeadUtility: Disciple of Life, Preserve LifeSpells: 4 cantrips, all spells known, 4-3-3-1Druid (moon):Defense: 46 HP, AC 16, Wild ShapeOffense: 1 attack +7 doing 2d8 (cantrip), Wild Shape, Primal StrikeUtility: Wild Shape (CR 2, no flying)Spells: 3 cantrips, all spells known, 4-3-3-1Note: Wild Shape is doing a lot of heavy liftingFighter (Champion):Defense: 67 HP, AC 20, Second windOffense: 2 attacks +7 doing 1d8+6 each, Action Surge, Improved CriticalUtility: Remarkable AthleteNote: Combat styles will impact AC versus attack strength a little bit.Monk (open hand):Defense: 32 HP, AC 18 or 46 HP, AC 16 (dex vs con), deflect missiles, slow fall, evasion, stillness of mind, wholeness of bodyOffense: 3 attacks +7 doing 1d6+2 each (1 open hand effect), stunning strike, flurry of blows, ki empowered, Utility: speedKi: 7 points per short restPaladin (devotion):Defense: 67 HP, AC 20, lay on hands, divine health, aura of protection, aura of devotionOffense: 2 attacks +7 doing 1d8+6 each, smite, sacred weapon, turn unholyUtility: divine sense, Spells: no cantrips, all known, 4-3Note: Combat styles will impact AC versus attack strength a little bit.Ranger (hunter):Defense: 53 HP, AC 18, defensive tacticsOffense: 2 attacks +7 1d8+4 each, hunter’s preyUtility: favored enemy, natural explorer, primeval awarenessSpells: no cantrips, 5 spells known, 4-3Rogue (thief):Defense: 28 HP, AC 16, Cunning Action, Uncanny Dodge, EvasionOffense: 1 attack +7 1d6+4 plus sneak attack 4d6, Cunning actionUtility: fast hands, second story workNote: the effectiveness of sneak attack is dependent on non-mechanical issuesSorcerer (draconic):Defense: 32 HP, AC 14Offense: 1 attack +7 2d8 (cantrip), elemental affinityUtility: metamagicSpells: 5 cantrips, 8 spells known 4-3-3-1Warlock (blade pact):Defense: 32 HP, AC 14Offense: 1 attack +7 2d8 (cantrip)Utility: 4 invocationsSpells: 3 cantrips, 8 known spells, 2 level 4 slotsWizard (evocation):Defense: 25 HP, AC 15Offense: 1 attack +7 2d8 (cantrip), sculpt spells, potent cantripUtility: arcane recoverySpells: 4 cantrips, many spells known, 4-3-3-1Obviously a lot of utility and effect is being buried under "spells" and I recognize that. I do not have the wherewithal at the moment to do a true spell analysis. Sorry.One thing i think is important to note is that the (champion) fighter just sucks, mechanically. It may be fun to play, but it throws off the benchmarking by a lot. Also, the "balance" of the rogue is hugely dependent on the GM. Some GMs let the rogue do sneak attack damage every round. In those cases, the rogue is a terrifying Cuisinart. Where the rogue has to work harder to use that ability, and the rogue quickly become underpowered.Not that power is the most important thing. But broadly speaking, if we are trying to figure out benchmarks, it is the best we have. Based on this relatively quick analysis, the only thing I can really say is that patterns about damage output versus defense are very hard to establish. I am not convinced there is much effort made in that sort of design in 5E, which strongly suggests that it should not be a major concern when developing an alternate.</blockquote>

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