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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 5696786" data-attributes="member: 5834">reaboydEvery class cannot do everything any more. The Tier system is flawed because of archetypes.Let me give you some examples:1. Ranger Archer: This class now has spells like instant enemy, bow spirit and hunter's eye. Build them as an archer with a harsh bow and you're sick. This character killed a Huge red dragon in two rounds at lvl 8. Did something like 242 points of damage. Has great skills. And a lot of fun class abilities.2. Human Invulnerable Rager Barbarian: Take Beast Totem to eventually get the ability to pounce and make a full attack with a two-handed weapon. Take Superstitious and the human favored class bonus for +17 on all saves versus spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities on top of your other bonuses. Basically you only miss on a 1 at high level against gnarly DCs.You have DR 10/-. If you get Come and Get Me, you do so much fricking sick damage you kill anything you face the majority of the time. You rip stuff apart.3. Monk Zen Archer: You get up to 8 attacks with your own power with a bow. 9 with haste. My friend took four levels of ranger for gravity bow and +16 BAB for Deadly Aim. He gets a huge number of attacks and does insane damage from long range. It's a nasty combination. Has a great AC because he is fully wisdom focused. He can boost his arrow damage to 4d8 with gravity bowactive.There are countless powerful combinations in the game.You cannot equal melees at their specialty as a wizard any longer. Polymorph is not the same. So druids, clerics, and wizards cannot change spells and be better fighting than melee classes. They get tons of stuff that makes them very powerful and stand out.The hardest class I have to deal with right now is the Human Invulnerable Rager Barbarian. He rarely misses his saves. He does nutty damage which got even worse with Raging Brutality. He has Come and Get Me so that nothing in the game built by standard D&D rules can survive a round against him while attacking him. He can kill leveled giants and balors in one round if they try to go toe to toe with him. This is not 3.0. Things are not the same. Folks that try to tell you they are don't have much experience running or playing Pathfinder and thus haven't seen well-built classes in action.I have. Though I'll still tell you that a wizard with time to prepare can kill every class one on one a great deal of the time.I won't tell you the wizard does everything as well as every class. Not even close. No matter how you build a wizard,  they will never match other classes focused on what they do. The physical damage dealers in general outclass them by a huge margin on damage. They can do all sorts of crazy stuff.The two-hander fighter in my group can run up to a group, use lunge, and AoE stun every creature within 10 feet of him for indefinite periods while averaging roughly 60 points plus a hit and making them all make a save versus stun and a save versus massive damage every round.Pathfinder is a very different game from 3.x. Thinking of it in tiers is not the best way to go about it. You might make a wizard thinking "I'll be really tough". Then watch Mr. Barbarian ripping through stuff like some kind of Tazmanian chainsaw or watching a Magus dimension door like nightcrawler while slashing an enemy apart or watching a two-hander fighter crit something for 200 plus points of damage. Capabilities are very different  now, very, very different.</blockquote>

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