Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Tier list for PF classes, or summary of each?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5696950" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Druid got significantly nerfed (both directly and indirectly -- all of its compatriot full casting brethren got boosted -- by comparison), but it's still at least as good as sorcerer, it's hardly a weak class.</p><p></p><p>One thing druids did get is that their items now remain functional while wildshaped, other than armor (and iirc shield by eratta, though originally you retained shield AC by strict RAW), which is a significant boon. You also get wildshape earlier, though IME the medium animal forms are pretty weak in combat, you don't start getting awesome till level 6 when you can be large and get pounce. In other words, about the same time as in 3E. You do get huge (ie, reach) 2 levels earlier, which is nice. Another note, paizo made a feat to speak while in Wildshape, in UM I think, which basically with Natural Spell removes any reason 3E druids ever had to not spend all day wildshaped.</p><p></p><p>If you plan to go well past the early levels and the Boon Companion feat is allowed, IMO you're a fool to not go Feather or Fur (Animal subdomains; I like Feather better) rather than taking the animal companion. Because...then you still get the companion at level 4 (at 3 levels down, which is why you need that feat)! Free spells and a small bonus class feature seems totally worth a feat to me! You will suck much more at 1st level, though.</p><p></p><p>Druid spellcasting seems to be about as good as before. Entangle got nerfed so that it's not as good late game anymore. For some reason Poison got super nerfed to be nigh useless now, which is a shame since it's one of the druid's early access spells. Baleful Polymorph is exactly as awesome as it used to be, though. Summoning compared to 3E seems to be weaker at spell levels 1-2 or 1-3, and then suddenly gets a major boost in the relative CR of creatures you can summon compared to your CL at 4th or 5th spell level. The splats have added some nice Druid spells, my favorite is <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/strong-jaw" target="_blank">Strong Jaw</a>.</p><p></p><p>All that said, though, Druid is actually more item dependent now than in 3E since you can actually dress yourself in wondrous items w/o any hassle. If you can't take Craft Wondrous Items feat and use it, your DM's game sounds inhospitable for even a Druid.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Summoner on the other hand... Is possibly the least stat and item dependent class in the game (if not him, then Sorc/Wizard, of course). They do rock a sexy charisma and UMD as a class skill, so no magical gadgets hurts, but not that much. And scribe scroll is still useful, just to supplement your battery of spells. Wand might actually be better if you can't count on buying them. I mean, how many mage armor spells do you need for your eidolon? Answer: However many times it gets dispelled +1. Similarly, you'll ideally want to enlarge person your pal every fight. The great thing about summoner is that you can standard action summon monsters that scale with your level ver well, many times per day, and summons never wear gear, so the less the party has, the more powerful the summons seem to be. Further, while you and the eidolon still would like gear, the eidolon's evolutions can buff itself pretty well, and you have a "shared slots" drawback, so you wouldn't have been using those body slot items as well as anyone else anyway. At higher levels, Craft Rod might actually be a good summoner feat. You get quite a few normally 4th level spells at 3rd and can thus buff them with a much cheaper lesser rod. And you get TONS of normally 7th, 8th, even 9th level spells at level 6 or earlier, likewise.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5696950, member: 35909"] Druid got significantly nerfed (both directly and indirectly -- all of its compatriot full casting brethren got boosted -- by comparison), but it's still at least as good as sorcerer, it's hardly a weak class. One thing druids did get is that their items now remain functional while wildshaped, other than armor (and iirc shield by eratta, though originally you retained shield AC by strict RAW), which is a significant boon. You also get wildshape earlier, though IME the medium animal forms are pretty weak in combat, you don't start getting awesome till level 6 when you can be large and get pounce. In other words, about the same time as in 3E. You do get huge (ie, reach) 2 levels earlier, which is nice. Another note, paizo made a feat to speak while in Wildshape, in UM I think, which basically with Natural Spell removes any reason 3E druids ever had to not spend all day wildshaped. If you plan to go well past the early levels and the Boon Companion feat is allowed, IMO you're a fool to not go Feather or Fur (Animal subdomains; I like Feather better) rather than taking the animal companion. Because...then you still get the companion at level 4 (at 3 levels down, which is why you need that feat)! Free spells and a small bonus class feature seems totally worth a feat to me! You will suck much more at 1st level, though. Druid spellcasting seems to be about as good as before. Entangle got nerfed so that it's not as good late game anymore. For some reason Poison got super nerfed to be nigh useless now, which is a shame since it's one of the druid's early access spells. Baleful Polymorph is exactly as awesome as it used to be, though. Summoning compared to 3E seems to be weaker at spell levels 1-2 or 1-3, and then suddenly gets a major boost in the relative CR of creatures you can summon compared to your CL at 4th or 5th spell level. The splats have added some nice Druid spells, my favorite is [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/strong-jaw]Strong Jaw[/url]. All that said, though, Druid is actually more item dependent now than in 3E since you can actually dress yourself in wondrous items w/o any hassle. If you can't take Craft Wondrous Items feat and use it, your DM's game sounds inhospitable for even a Druid. Summoner on the other hand... Is possibly the least stat and item dependent class in the game (if not him, then Sorc/Wizard, of course). They do rock a sexy charisma and UMD as a class skill, so no magical gadgets hurts, but not that much. And scribe scroll is still useful, just to supplement your battery of spells. Wand might actually be better if you can't count on buying them. I mean, how many mage armor spells do you need for your eidolon? Answer: However many times it gets dispelled +1. Similarly, you'll ideally want to enlarge person your pal every fight. The great thing about summoner is that you can standard action summon monsters that scale with your level ver well, many times per day, and summons never wear gear, so the less the party has, the more powerful the summons seem to be. Further, while you and the eidolon still would like gear, the eidolon's evolutions can buff itself pretty well, and you have a "shared slots" drawback, so you wouldn't have been using those body slot items as well as anyone else anyway. At higher levels, Craft Rod might actually be a good summoner feat. You get quite a few normally 4th level spells at 3rd and can thus buff them with a much cheaper lesser rod. And you get TONS of normally 7th, 8th, even 9th level spells at level 6 or earlier, likewise. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Tier list for PF classes, or summary of each?
Top