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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Tightening the Connection between Fiction and Powers Mechanics
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5749526" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Clearly, you don't know about class imbalance. They did get rid of martial dailies in Essentials - and those classes weren't balanced with those classes that kept them. Dailies aren't as overwhelmingly potent in 4e as spells often were in the past, but they still provide some peak power and flexibility, and lacking that really makes a class pall on shorter (~<4 encounter) 'days.' (Conversely, having butch at-wills and encounters makes such a class overly effective relative to others on exceptionally grueling 'days' - not that waiting to be impressive until everyone else is exhausted and begging to rest is all that awesome).</p><p></p><p>Even Pathfinder gave arcane casters the equivalent of at-wills. A character that can run out of it's schtick is just sad.</p><p></p><p>Now, getting rid of dailies entirely is a viable option. Not sure why I mention that, but it could certainly work, as long as /no one/ has 'em.</p><p></p><p>You can't go home again. </p><p></p><p>Really, this kind of thing /is/ about nostalgia. Even if you go out of your way to make a good, modern game more like the primitive one you have fond memories of playing, you won't get the same experience - some bitter-sweet nostalgia, at best.</p><p></p><p>Everyone has enough of that swing, now, to be fun, but not so much as to be hosed when they're out of the big guns, or ruin the game for everyone else when they're firing them off.</p><p></p><p>There are, indeed, different preference and play styles. The way you cater to divergent styles at the same table is to have game balance. Because balance lets everyone have their sort of fun without ruining everyone else's fun. So, to the extent that you could do so without harming game balance, yes, you should try to capture some of the swinginess of paleo-D&D spells. The extent to which you can do that without harming game balance, is to give all classes daily resources of comparable effectiveness in similar numbers. 4e has already gone as far as it should in that direction (to be clear, that direction is 'backwards'). Essentials has already gone too far.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5749526, member: 996"] Clearly, you don't know about class imbalance. They did get rid of martial dailies in Essentials - and those classes weren't balanced with those classes that kept them. Dailies aren't as overwhelmingly potent in 4e as spells often were in the past, but they still provide some peak power and flexibility, and lacking that really makes a class pall on shorter (~<4 encounter) 'days.' (Conversely, having butch at-wills and encounters makes such a class overly effective relative to others on exceptionally grueling 'days' - not that waiting to be impressive until everyone else is exhausted and begging to rest is all that awesome). Even Pathfinder gave arcane casters the equivalent of at-wills. A character that can run out of it's schtick is just sad. Now, getting rid of dailies entirely is a viable option. Not sure why I mention that, but it could certainly work, as long as /no one/ has 'em. You can't go home again. Really, this kind of thing /is/ about nostalgia. Even if you go out of your way to make a good, modern game more like the primitive one you have fond memories of playing, you won't get the same experience - some bitter-sweet nostalgia, at best. Everyone has enough of that swing, now, to be fun, but not so much as to be hosed when they're out of the big guns, or ruin the game for everyone else when they're firing them off. There are, indeed, different preference and play styles. The way you cater to divergent styles at the same table is to have game balance. Because balance lets everyone have their sort of fun without ruining everyone else's fun. So, to the extent that you could do so without harming game balance, yes, you should try to capture some of the swinginess of paleo-D&D spells. The extent to which you can do that without harming game balance, is to give all classes daily resources of comparable effectiveness in similar numbers. 4e has already gone as far as it should in that direction (to be clear, that direction is 'backwards'). Essentials has already gone too far. [/QUOTE]
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