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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6086731" data-attributes="member: 177">Yes, but, by the watch of someone far away from the black hole, when does that happen?  The infalling person's clock keeps running, but at an ever-slowing rate as compared to the rest of the universe, asymptotically approaching (but never reaching) a stop.  So their personal experience is that they fall and will eventually cross the horizon, the rest of the universe has gone off to heat death before that happens, hasn't it?  It isn't "never" by his own clock, it is "never" by ours, no?   If they had an amazing jet pack that could accelerate them to arbitrarily close to c, there is no time in our future that they could not emerge, isn't that correct?  Tunneling gets invoked so that they get across that boundary in what we, in the rest of the universe, would consider finite time.</blockquote>