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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Forrester" data-source="post: 322106" data-attributes="member: 1279">Absolutely. I've been playing since 1E, and while there always used to be munchkinny Monty Haul players, there have been some notable changes. 1) 3E, as opposed to the earlier editions, seems to place even more imporance On Ye Olde Magic Shoppe. I think that Everquest/Baldur's Gate/etc. had a lot to do with this -- some players just can't imagine a world where they can't go to some town, dump all of their magic loot, buy whatever magic loot they want instead, and leave. Making sure that they have the Best Magic Items In Each Slot, of course. 2) Rules-Lawyering is far, far worse than it used to be. Maybe it's just because there are better, more specific rules in 3E, I dunno. I suspect it's CCGs, where what the Official Rules Are is paramount. And not only is the rules-lawyering worse, but I get the sense that many players strongly resent Rule 0, especially if every single Rule 0 of any importance isn't spelled out to them beforehand. IMO, Dungeons and Dragons isn't a freaking CCG where you are supposed to manipulate the rules In Order To Create The Game-Breaking Combo. And the rules are there to be changed. I've read the hissy fits of Monte and others about how a GM should not just change what he doesn't like -- essentially "don't ban/change Scrying, or Polymorph Other, or Heal/Harm, or Whirlwind/Cleave/Bag o' Snails, or Commune, JUST because you don't like the effects! Work AROUND them!"  And I have to say, it pisses me off. This isn't Magic: The Tapping, people. There should be no stigma for breaking the sillier rules of 3E. You are under NO obligation to try to make your campaign work around scryers that can scry anyone in the world, regardless of whether they've met them. Or fighters who fights better if there are a bunch of blind kobolds standing next to his opponent.  In sum . . . there's a chicken-and-egg thing going on here. In my opinion, the powergaming and the rules-lawyering and the expectations of players have changed (and gotten worse) since 1E. Some of it is due to the more definitive rules in 3E, and its reliance on miniatures and 5'x5' squares. And some of it is due to the players' experiences with CRPGs and CCGs. I have no doubt that the latter impacted the creation of the former, but how much, I dunno. And if I hear ONE MORE PLAYER respond to the in-game comment "You didn't see the guy behind you" with "There's no facing in 3E" I'm going to punch him in the face.</blockquote>

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