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<blockquote data-quote="LokiDR" data-source="post: 325346" data-attributes="member: 6239">Rule 0 has a purpose.&nbsp; That purpose is keep the game fun.&nbsp; If a DM is running a game, and the game is no longer fun because the party is abusing a powerful spell, the DM should do something to make the game fun.&nbsp; Rule 0 is the last resort.&nbsp; As a party gets higher level, the DM must adapt or not run higher level games.&nbsp; Teleport, scry, wish and other powerful spells are part of a high level game.&nbsp; They all have counters.&nbsp; If a DM has to Rule 0 this kind of spell, then he (or she) shouldn't run a game that has them in the first place.&nbsp; Just because you can run a really fun low level game doesn't mean that you can a high level game.In the case of a whodonit, it is a different genre.&nbsp; That genre means the challenge is mental, not just finding the right spell.&nbsp; You should know ahead of time, not change genre in the middle of a game.&nbsp; As for taking away an abilty a player has already by rule 0, I don't agree with it unless it is really bad.&nbsp; &quot;you kill too many of kobalds with cleave, so I am removing it&quot; is too reactionary.&nbsp; The character with cleave can keep going, that isn't a problem, but if the person like that feat you just took away his fun.&nbsp; You just made the game not fun.&nbsp; Now, if the wizard has some item that allows him to fight in melee better than the fighters, then you might try to fix it, but only if the fighter types are annoyed.&nbsp; When ever you take something away, you should talk to the player first, and try to explain the reasoning.&nbsp; Try to find other alternatives.If you treat players like a kid with an annoying toy, don't complain when they whine like a kid that you took it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="LokiDR, post: 325346, member: 6239"] Rule 0 has a purpose. That purpose is keep the game fun. If a DM is running a game, and the game is no longer fun because the party is abusing a powerful spell, the DM should do something to make the game fun. Rule 0 is the last resort. As a party gets higher level, the DM must adapt or not run higher level games. Teleport, scry, wish and other powerful spells are part of a high level game. They all have counters. If a DM has to Rule 0 this kind of spell, then he (or she) shouldn't run a game that has them in the first place. Just because you can run a really fun low level game doesn't mean that you can a high level game. In the case of a whodonit, it is a different genre. That genre means the challenge is mental, not just finding the right spell. You should know ahead of time, not change genre in the middle of a game. As for taking away an abilty a player has already by rule 0, I don't agree with it unless it is really bad. "you kill too many of kobalds with cleave, so I am removing it" is too reactionary. The character with cleave can keep going, that isn't a problem, but if the person like that feat you just took away his fun. You just made the game not fun. Now, if the wizard has some item that allows him to fight in melee better than the fighters, then you might try to fix it, but only if the fighter types are annoyed. When ever you take something away, you should talk to the player first, and try to explain the reasoning. Try to find other alternatives. If you treat players like a kid with an annoying toy, don't complain when they whine like a kid that you took it. [/QUOTE]

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