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<blockquote data-quote="LokiDR" data-source="post: 331204" data-attributes="member: 6239">This conversation has gone quit far afield.&nbsp; What about a high level spy master?&nbsp; He has eyes and ears everywhere.&nbsp; He will know where the PCs are, sneak in with huge bonuses, and kill them in their sleep.&nbsp; No scry.&nbsp; No teleport.&nbsp; Dead party.If a party is directly facing a much stronger force, they lose.&nbsp; My party of 5 pcs, averaging 5th level, faces a 10th level wizard, and they die.&nbsp; If you try to change this concept, you are throwing out logic entirely.&nbsp; If you want very experienced characters to reasonably afraid of a party you do not want to play the D&amp;D game that was written in the core books.&nbsp; I suggest you invest in &quot;The End&quot;.&nbsp; D&amp;D was never written to be that gritty.&nbsp; Honestly, if you want to talk about a game that is, you are not talking D&amp;D.&nbsp; In a game like that, scry, teleport, commune and many other spells MUST be snipped.&nbsp; Fine, but you are not running the game that was written as D&amp;D.If you like this game, more power to you.&nbsp; But then we have no way to talk about a game.&nbsp; We are playing different games.&nbsp; The soap actor ends up in an action movie.As far as that game, I do like them.&nbsp; Hey, I play ShadowRun.&nbsp; I think I will check out this campaign you keep talking about, barsoomcore.&nbsp; I have had very similar concepts for several games.&nbsp; But even then, the paranoia should keep the high levels in line, and the mods to scry/teleport et. al. shouldn't be neccessary.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="LokiDR, post: 331204, member: 6239"] This conversation has gone quit far afield. What about a high level spy master? He has eyes and ears everywhere. He will know where the PCs are, sneak in with huge bonuses, and kill them in their sleep. No scry. No teleport. Dead party. If a party is directly facing a much stronger force, they lose. My party of 5 pcs, averaging 5th level, faces a 10th level wizard, and they die. If you try to change this concept, you are throwing out logic entirely. If you want very experienced characters to reasonably afraid of a party you do not want to play the D&D game that was written in the core books. I suggest you invest in "The End". D&D was never written to be that gritty. Honestly, if you want to talk about a game that is, you are not talking D&D. In a game like that, scry, teleport, commune and many other spells MUST be snipped. Fine, but you are not running the game that was written as D&D. If you like this game, more power to you. But then we have no way to talk about a game. We are playing different games. The soap actor ends up in an action movie. As far as that game, I do like them. Hey, I play ShadowRun. I think I will check out this campaign you keep talking about, barsoomcore. I have had very similar concepts for several games. But even then, the paranoia should keep the high levels in line, and the mods to scry/teleport et. al. shouldn't be neccessary. [/QUOTE]

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