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<blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 5613779" data-attributes="member: 3192">This is a good list of ideas, but I think you're missing how a Timmy player can be a real problem at the game table.&nbsp; I'm sure we've all run into players who were simply not playing the game in order to engage in a strategic enterprise. Timmy is having fun, but what is fun for him can become a nuisance for others. In fact, by being oblivious enough to the risks and current strategic standing of the game he can become yet another obstacle to enjoyable play for other player types (their puzzling out of the rules to achieve their own ends - whatever those may be). Here's an example: Spike has a simple, yet devious plan for tricking a band of orcs and leading them into a dead end where they will be easier to combat and/or negotiate with. Johnny has a brilliant idea to dig and hide some pit traps within the dead end beforehand. He even casts a magic mouth in each pit to give off lion roars when triggered. With a well timed cloud of fog after the orcs have entered, chaos will hopefully ensue.&nbsp; Timmy, on the other hand, decides to grab a keg of ale, march up to the orcs under a white flag (thereby revealing himself), and challenge the chief to a drinking contest. He's off doing his own thing in this case. Not so bad, but is it helping the group? What if he decided to tell the leader secretly about the party's strategy because turning the tables on them is an interesting twist?&nbsp; Of course, he could also decide to disguise himself as an orc and run in the fog cloud as part of the party strategy. Each one one of Timmy's options is potentially fun and dramatic (his player archetype), but the case can be made that so are Johnny and Spike's ideas.I think a problematic Timmy is best dealt with through determining shared goals at the table. &quot;Do something fun&quot; isn't nearly descriptive enough to help the other players or DM provide collective enjoyment at the table.&nbsp; How shared goals are instituted can be designed into a game's rules or made by each group.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="howandwhy99, post: 5613779, member: 3192"] This is a good list of ideas, but I think you're missing how a Timmy player can be a real problem at the game table. I'm sure we've all run into players who were simply not playing the game in order to engage in a strategic enterprise. Timmy is having fun, but what is fun for him can become a nuisance for others. In fact, by being oblivious enough to the risks and current strategic standing of the game he can become yet another obstacle to enjoyable play for other player types (their puzzling out of the rules to achieve their own ends - whatever those may be). Here's an example: Spike has a simple, yet devious plan for tricking a band of orcs and leading them into a dead end where they will be easier to combat and/or negotiate with. Johnny has a brilliant idea to dig and hide some pit traps within the dead end beforehand. He even casts a magic mouth in each pit to give off lion roars when triggered. With a well timed cloud of fog after the orcs have entered, chaos will hopefully ensue. Timmy, on the other hand, decides to grab a keg of ale, march up to the orcs under a white flag (thereby revealing himself), and challenge the chief to a drinking contest. He's off doing his own thing in this case. Not so bad, but is it helping the group? What if he decided to tell the leader secretly about the party's strategy because turning the tables on them is an interesting twist? Of course, he could also decide to disguise himself as an orc and run in the fog cloud as part of the party strategy. Each one one of Timmy's options is potentially fun and dramatic (his player archetype), but the case can be made that so are Johnny and Spike's ideas. I think a problematic Timmy is best dealt with through determining shared goals at the table. "Do something fun" isn't nearly descriptive enough to help the other players or DM provide collective enjoyment at the table. How shared goals are instituted can be designed into a game's rules or made by each group. [/QUOTE]

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