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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thunderfoot" data-source="post: 5520069" data-attributes="member: 34175">And for me, one man's boring is another man's role playing...You state that combat is boring because not everyone has spells, that is one reason I don't like the new versions, EVERYONE has spells or spell-like abilities.  It doesn't make it wrong per se, but for a lot of us grognards, it does mean that fighters and magic-users look exactly the same, sans armor.Neither is bad wrong fun, just different.  Often times it is looked upon by you "young'uns" that without special moves or a whiz-bang spell-like ability that you aren't contributing or doing much.  I also understand that movies (wire-fu and modern action sequences (people don't fly backwards when they get shot)) and video games (yes I said it, non stop action - zero RP) have a lot to do with this.    While those of us that are older used to "see" a lot of combat in our minds (minis were rarely if ever used).Again, neither is wrong, just different.  There is a big disconnect between modern gamers and those that were around in the beginning, especially since 3.X was released.  The idea of playing without minis or special skills is so foreign an idea to a "modern" role player that to go back to bare bones seems primitive, and I respect that, but that bare bones, stripped down play style led to some of the greatest memories of my childhood, therefore, it holds a very special place for me and my fellow grognards.There are entire movements devoted to the bare bones play styles ("Rulings not Rulebook"s is one of my favorites) and of course with computers at your beck and call many of the aspects of modern play can be streamlined.  But there was a time when combat was NOT the primary reason to play, and was really the only part with rules because everything else was negotiable.  Most of all, the old style was about surviving, not winning.  I see a real trend towards what is known as "end game" thinking in a lot of role players today.  Planning character paths, choosing feats and skills to shape the character several levels from now, etc.  And even those that don't run into the "Epic" levels still have a plan to get from point A to point B.  This is also where I think the concept of sandbox versus scripting versus railroading comes in.  Before, it was the DMs job to get everyone going toward a goal, because players knew what the next level was going to bring, now players want the DM to give them certain encounters so that they can achieve certain milestones to get them to where they want to be.  I don't know why I haven't ever thought of that before now, but there it is.  So maybe that's what all this old vs new really is, a time when less planning was done by the players and the DM was free to move the world without pissing them off versus the modern concept of the DM trying to "serve up" opportunities for players to possibly achieve character goals.   *shrugs*Who really knows?</blockquote>

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