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<blockquote data-quote="Mordane76" data-source="post: 522317" data-attributes="member: 7172">I think what people are concerned about, Plane Sailing, is that those magic items mean less to a wizard than to a fighter.If you have two Ftr20 and two Wiz20, and you strip both Ftr20 naked and put them up against creatures of CR20, the Ftr20 will be far less effective than the Wiz20 if you stripped them naked -- they would still have their spells, and could still wipe out the challenge fairly handily.Luckily, items and wealth is part of having achieved a certain level; it is expected that someone of level 20 will have poweful items and can do things that most of the other classes can do as well.&nbsp; I don't think it diminishes the power of other classes -- there's always greater dispelling and disjunction for those truly worried about high level, magic-wielding psycho fighters.&nbsp; The best way to maintain class integrity, IMO, is DM planning -- much of the problem here is that high-level PCs are planning ahead; they know what they want to be able to do, and the rules let them do so.&nbsp; Monsters of the level that the PCs should be facing just have to be that much more intelligent; they have every right to plan for things as well.&nbsp; Personally, it comes down to this: no matter what a wizard or sorcerer does, no matter how many plusses he adds to the weapon, he will never have as high a BAB as the fighter, and he will never have as many feats.&nbsp; And no matter what the fighter does, he will never be able to sit down for fifteen minutes and prepare a slew of spells that include such doozies as hellball and vengeful gaze of god.The only way for these two to ever become similar in these regards is for the fighter to become a wizard and the wizard to become a fighter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mordane76, post: 522317, member: 7172"] I think what people are concerned about, Plane Sailing, is that those magic items mean less to a wizard than to a fighter. If you have two Ftr20 and two Wiz20, and you strip both Ftr20 naked and put them up against creatures of CR20, the Ftr20 will be far less effective than the Wiz20 if you stripped them naked -- they would still have their spells, and could still wipe out the challenge fairly handily. Luckily, items and wealth is part of having achieved a certain level; it is expected that someone of level 20 will have poweful items and can do things that most of the other classes can do as well. I don't think it diminishes the power of other classes -- there's always [i]greater dispelling[/i] and [i]disjunction[/i] for those truly worried about high level, magic-wielding psycho fighters. The best way to maintain class integrity, IMO, is DM planning -- much of the problem here is that high-level PCs are planning ahead; they know what they want to be able to do, and the rules let them do so. Monsters of the level that the PCs should be facing just have to be that much more intelligent; they have every right to plan for things as well. Personally, it comes down to this: no matter what a wizard or sorcerer does, no matter how many plusses he adds to the weapon, he will never have as high a BAB as the fighter, and he will never have as many feats. And no matter what the fighter does, he will never be able to sit down for fifteen minutes and prepare a slew of spells that include such doozies as [i]hellball[/i] and [i]vengeful gaze of god[/i]. The only way for these two to ever become similar in these regards is for the fighter to become a wizard and the wizard to become a fighter. [/QUOTE]

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