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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 9652426" data-attributes="member: 83242">Thank you for your thoughts! They are very helpful.I do want to be clear, the intent of this thread was not about tier 4 design. It was to discuss legendary vs non-legendary solos.Interesting list. I am DMing tier 4 now and my PCs are not doing anything close to this!  One issue (and also a feature) with 5e is that there can be such a large range of capabilities between groups.I don't think there is a one size fits all answer, I also want to stress that monsters are designed with the thought that PCs don't need magic items.  So, if you are awarding magic items the DM needs to revise a monster for their group. Anyway, I did address some of those issues in my dragon (particularly the mythic version)<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Initiative: the dragon has blindsight (so can "see" invisible) and +14 beats PCs with Alert typically</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Movement: You will notice my dragon as 180 flying speed. So, yes it can probably get out of range</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Breath weapon: Look at the mythic version. Once its mythic trait is active the Fire ignores resistance and nerfs immunity. I originally had this in the non-mythic version but this discussion wasn't really about tier 4 monster design, but legendary vs non-legendary.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spells: The dragon's best attacks aren't spells. Also, the mythic version has access to multiple 7th level spells</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">PCs do miss in my experience, but I get your point.  I upped the AC to 24 with the mythic version, but yes they hit alot!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Death: Look again at the Fire Breath. 0 = death.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reactions: The dragon doesn't necessarily need them, but its Draconic Resilience reaction is meant to active even when reactions are shut down, that was the intent of "even when incapacitated or unconscious," but that may not cover everything. They are hard to avoid as well since the triggers are: a creature ends its turn, the dragon starts its turn, and the dragon takes damage. If you avoid all of those the dragon is probably doing just fine! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Conditions: The intent is to make monsters with high enough saves they avoid some conditions, and then give them a way to mitigate them. I am not sure LR is the best way to do that, but I am not sure I have the answer either. My attempt was Draconic Resilience that can always be used (don't run out of them like LR), but it has a cost to the dragon. If you have a better idea, let me know!</li> </ul>As mentioned the dragon is not stopped by the incapacitated condition. However, there may be a better way to do this than my Draconic Resilience. I also could look at giving it more condition immunities.  A lot of high CR monsters have these (and they don't factor in the CR at least per the 2014 guidelines).I still think the non-legendary dragon is more likely to damage a party than the legendary version, but that may not be the case for specific parties and builds.I will say, I would only use my Mythic version for a tier 4 solo. It resolves even more of the issues you discuss.</blockquote>

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