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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6805173" data-attributes="member: 6790260">That would seem to be contradicted by the "treat low numbers as fails, middling numbers as success on easy to medium tasks, and a 20+ as always successful, without even setting a DC--your players will never know" claptrap that appeared in the playtest (I dunno if it survived into the DMG or the Basic Rules PDF). That is, the numbers do in fact actually cash out--within a certain range--to particular things consistently enough that the designers can sincerely recommend "winging it" in that way.I agree with this sentiment--but I don't think it actually contradicts the argument being made. Maps, stats, plot details, etc. are kept secret, so that they can be revealed. Why is fudging kept secret? So that it will stay secret. That seems an important, and relevant, difference.I see this as pretty different from fudging, though perhaps I'm quibbling over details. I don't mind if trained people can accomplish tasks that untrained people can't. There are things a physically fit person is so fantastically unlikely to achieve, because they don't know the limits of the body and how to push them, that they are essentially "impossible" for that person (read: high natural Str/Dex/Con, no training in any relevant skills). Similarly, there are things that a highly trained, but out-of-shape, person can accomplish (by knowing and pushing the limits of the body), despite their lack of raw ability (read: mediocre natural Str/Dex/Con, training in a relevant skill like Acrobatics or Athletics). Similarly, there are lots of things I can do with an unknown computer program or system, because I'm a fairly clever guy--but when I took a class on how to use various office software programs (a requirement, at the college I was attending), I still learned a lot of stuff because cleverness cannot substitute for knowledge, e.g. knowing Excel syntax. I could have learned those things on my own, sure, but that would have been me "training myself." Long story short: for someone untrained, there are some tasks that can't be accomplished, despite being trivial for someone who is trained. That's the first step toward what you're talking about: some tasks that never require a roll, because either you're Trained/Proficient/whatever and can just automatically do/know them, or you aren't Trained/Proficient/whatever and just automatically can't do/know them. If these automatic things are then made into a added-on or secondary effect of a roll (such as logging into a computer system, foraging for food, or whatever else), then you can now have a situation where the same score can get only Result A if you're untrained, but Result A+B if you're trained.</blockquote>

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