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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the_bruiser" data-source="post: 1487989" data-attributes="member: 6126">This is correct.  Further, the spellcaster in this situation should focus almost solely on utility and buff spells for reasons mentioned above (including but not limited to damage, saves, and SR penetration). One alternative is to present to your DM a multi-class system we use in my campaigns.  Basically, this is a method for creating custom Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster classes for ANY non-casting/casting combo that makes it much more viable!  Using this, you may stil be A BIT underpowered, but you'll be very close and certainly not feel stupid for your decision.  Here are the rules we use:MULTI-CLASSED SPELLCASTERSIn the base rules, multi-classed spellcasters stink.  To help make up for that, every multi-classed spellcaster has access to a custom prestige class with the characteristics outlined below.Requirements•    Class A: The character must be able to cast third level spells as a cleric, shugenja, sorcerer, wizard, or similar “casting” class.  •    Class B: The character must be at least fifth level fighter, ranger, rogue, or similar “non-casting” class.•    The player must come up with a cool name for his custom prestige class.Base Statistics•    The character’s base attack progression (good, medium, bad) is the average of classes A and B, rounded down.•    The character’s hit die is the average of classes A and B, rounded down to nearest die.•    The character receives good saving throw bonuses for saves in which either class A or B has good bonuses, bad otherwise.  •    The character has skill points equal to the average of classes A or B, rounded down to the nearest multiple of two.  All class skills for Class A and Class B are class skills for this class.Class Abilities•    Every level in the custom prestige class grants an additional spellcasting level in Class A.  Every level in the custom prestige class grants the non-spellcasting abilities in an alternating fashion, starting with Class B.Example #1Bob is a 5th level fighter / 5th level cleric / 7th level redeemer (cool name, +5).  The redeemer prestige class has the following properties:•    BAB progression: would be medium, the average of fighter (good) and cleric (medium), rounded down.•    Hit die: fighter d10, cleric d8, so redeemer is d8.•    Saves: Fighters have good fort, clerics have good fort and will, so redeemer has good fort and will saves, bad reflex.•    Skill Points: Fighters have two, clerics have two, so redeemer has two and access to both skill lists, no rounding needed.•    Spellcasting: A 5th level fighter / 5th level cleric / 7th level custom would cast as an 12th level cleric (5+7).•    Class features: A 5th level fighter / 5th level cleric / 7th level custom would have all the feats of a 9th level fighter (5+7/2 rounded up) and all non-spellcasting abilities (turning undead, etc.) of an 8th level cleric (5+7/2 rounded down).Example #2Bob is a 5th level ranger / 5th level wizard / 4th level nature’s fireball cannon (not acceptable, -10).  The unacceptably-named prestige class would have had the following properties if the name had been acceptable:•    BAB progression: would be medium, the average of ranger (good) and wizard (bad), no rounding needed.•    Saves: Rangers have good fort and reflex, wizards have good will, so class has good bonuses in all saves.•    Skill Points: Rangers have six, wizards have two, so class has four and access to both skill lists, no rounding needed.•    Spellcasting: A 5th level ranger / 5th level wizard / 4th level custom would cast as a 9th level wizard (5+4).•    Class features: A 5th level ranger / 5th level wizard / 4th level custom would have all the feats, animal companions, etc. of a 7th level ranger (5+4/2) and all non-spellcasting abilities (bonus metamagic feats) of a 7th level wizard (5+4/2).</blockquote>

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