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<blockquote data-quote="cougent" data-source="post: 4464411" data-attributes="member: 48665">At the moment I can't really break it down to good descriptive points as has been done by the OP and others, all I can think of is to give 2 examples.While going down a 10' hallway the group comes to an obstacle, a 20' long pit 10' deep with a 4&quot; wide beam to cross down the middle.&nbsp; The pit is just a pit with no spikes or acid or anything else, just a 10' deep hole.UNFUN for me:DM:&nbsp; &quot;Everyone roll balance checks to see if you make it across&quot;P1: &quot;17&quot;DM:&nbsp; &quot;You made it&quot;P2:&nbsp; &quot;12&quot;DM:&nbsp; &quot;You fell in and take (d6) points of damage, next&quot;...FUN for me:DM:&nbsp; &quot;So how are you guys going to cross this?&quot;P1:&nbsp; &quot;I have a rope and we can lower Lothar the mighty into the pit.&nbsp; He can then use his 10' pole to study the others as they walk across the beam, that should give us a bonus on balance checks right?&quot;DM:&nbsp; &quot;Yeah, I will give you a +6 bonus&quot;P2:&nbsp; &quot;Also since Bentus the sneak has a DEX of 19, I will go first and take another rope across to help out the others as well.&quot;...I know this is role vs roll, but it is more than that, it is actually being in the game vs being in the room and &quot;Oh, is it my turn to roll?&quot;&nbsp; I want to (and want my players to) work out how to do things, not just what dice to roll and what number to beat.&nbsp; For me, when D&amp;D devolves into a dice game, it becomes a very unfun game.&nbsp; When we use dice just to adjudicate success / failure for specific actions that we have decided to perform then it is a fun game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="cougent, post: 4464411, member: 48665"] At the moment I can't really break it down to good descriptive points as has been done by the OP and others, all I can think of is to give 2 examples. While going down a 10' hallway the group comes to an obstacle, a 20' long pit 10' deep with a 4" wide beam to cross down the middle. The pit is just a pit with no spikes or acid or anything else, just a 10' deep hole. UNFUN for me: DM: "Everyone roll balance checks to see if you make it across" P1: "17" DM: "You made it" P2: "12" DM: "You fell in and take (d6) points of damage, next" ... FUN for me: DM: "So how are you guys going to cross this?" P1: "I have a rope and we can lower Lothar the mighty into the pit. He can then use his 10' pole to study the others as they walk across the beam, that should give us a bonus on balance checks right?" DM: "Yeah, I will give you a +6 bonus" P2: "Also since Bentus the sneak has a DEX of 19, I will go first and take another rope across to help out the others as well." ... I know this is role vs roll, but it is more than that, it is actually being in the game vs being in the room and "Oh, is it my turn to roll?" I want to (and want my players to) work out how to do things, not just what dice to roll and what number to beat. For me, when D&D devolves into a dice game, it becomes a very unfun game. When we use dice just to adjudicate success / failure for specific actions that [I]we have decided to perform[/I] then it is a fun game. [/QUOTE]

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