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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LittleFuzzy" data-source="post: 4659863" data-attributes="member: 79881">For all effective purposes empty air, the ground, and a bag of rats are all identical as far as attacking a square goes, right?  A main reason we still have the bag o' rats rule in 4E is because you can always come up with something to Hit in an "empty square" if you try hard enough.  And it's not necessarily over-powered to do so, as with 4E's cleave.  It just leads to ridiculous scenarios.Yes, Split the Tree triggers off the Attack line and not the Hit line.  You're still shooting at a leaf blowing through the air so you can get two effective attack rolls on one real target.  You're still abusing that bag 'o rats.You're trying to make a lot out of the targeting empty squares to hit invisible creatures and it seems to me that the tail is wagging the dog.  Because you should be able to try and hit creatures you can't see, you can target the square you think an invisible creature is in.  A character would have no reason to try and target it if there was no invisible creature *or the character didn't think there was an invisible creature* and if in some bizzare circumstance they still really wanted to, since it can have no mechanical effect the DM can simply handwave it away.  Without a credible threat, without an actual defense to hit, there's no point to an attack roll in the first place.I suppose that targeting an empty square is not the same thing as making an attack roll against an empty square.  Two separate lines on a power entry, just as an Attack Line is generally separate from the Hit line.  We already knew that from Area powers, but this appears to illustrate the truths of that for multiple-target non-area powers as well.</blockquote>

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