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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 7206125">But you really only prove my point.  In order for a Fighter to be good at a "Face Skill" he has to try and even then he has to really try.  The Fighter class does not provide proficiency in any Face Skill except Intimidate.  So, you're either A: multiclassing (unlikely if your table doesn't run feats) or B: picking a background that gives it to you.A Rogue or Bard can get proficiency in Face Skills without multiclassing and without taking a background.  But if they did take a background, they're going to be better at those Face Skills than you, because they're designed to be better at it.  Your argument basically breaks down to: In order for me(the Fighter) to be good at Face Skills, everyone else has to choose to be bad at them.  Even then, for a Fighter to be good at Face Skills, assuming stats are finite resources and you cannot have a 20 in everything, you have to allocate your points away from what the Fighter was designed to be good at (hitting things and being hit by things).  A Rogue, or a Bard does not.  They can choose not to be a Face, and still walk away with good scores in Face Skills.BUT (and this is a big butt!)I agree with not setting DCs with the expectation of expertise.  Fully agree there.But I'll add that AMT (at my table) I like to treat Proficiency more like 4E "Trained".  So that people like you who want to be the Face will always be a step ahead of people who are just naturally inclined towards a task.  I will at times even limit certain attempts to people only with proficiency, because I value the effort that people like you made to make your Fighter a Face, against all the odds, when McStabby the Rogue just happens to be good at it.And I feel that is a better solution than artificially inflating the DCs.  Just raise your DM hand and say "No, due to Bob's extensive training, only he can attempt this."  I will even sometimes give different DCs to different players based on their backgrounds.  McStabby may be more inclined towards lock-picking and thus a DC 18, but Joe the Wizard took the Locksmith background and he comes from a family line of locksmiths so he gets a DC 14.  But this is also why I don't tell players the DC they need to hit.</blockquote>

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