Tomb of Annihilation - Toning It Down Suggestions [spoilers]

[Retreater]

Hey everybody.
My group has been having a good time in Tomb of Annihilation. However now that they're in the namesake Tomb, play expectations have changed.
A little about my group. I've been DMing for close to 30 years. I like tactical games, and my own player death doesn't really bother me. My players, however, are mostly new gamers in their first campaign. We started ToA when it was the "new adventure."
I think the players underestimated my warning of a "death trap dungeon." I've tried to give hints throughout, but an encounter on Level 3 resulted in a "gotcha" trap that incapacitated most of the party and was quickly devolving into a TPK. No one was happy.
So I talked it over with the group and I gave them a reset button - something I said I wouldn't make a habit of. I wanted to give them the chance to discuss expectations if play and the way the Tomb was being handled.
The group wants to stick with the current adventure since we've been at it a while. But they want more fair challenges in the dungeon. (For example, I'll need to give saves for the "no save, just die" traps.)
Does anyone have suggestions? (Other than "just kill their characters so they can learn 'proper D&D'" or "just find a new adventure.")

 

[Quickleaf]

Yes, I do have suggestions.

First, you need to know about the Tomb of the Nine Gods "Save or Die" List. This is a list of the 13 traps in the Tomb that kill you at 0 HP – unlike virtually every other effect in the game. Players unaware that this is possible are in for a rude awakening.

[SBLOCK=Save or Die List]LEVEL ONE
9. Magic Fountain Result of a 1 - DC 12 or CON 44 (8d10) Necrotic - Disintegrates at 0 HP
16. Wongo's Onyx Chest - DC 15 CON or 75 (10d6 + 40) Force - Disintegrates at 0 HP
LEVEL TWO
20. False Tomb Door Trap - DC 15 DEX or 55 (10d10) Bludgeoning - Pulverized at 0 HP
22. Bronze Shield Attack - Ranged Spell Attack of 18 (4d8) Force - Disintegrates at 0 HP
LEVEL THREE
30. Iron Barrier Trap - DC 15 DEX or 44 (8d10) Slashing - Chopped in Two at 0 HP
35(A). Stone Door Trap - DC 7 DEX or 55 (10d10) Bludgeoning - Crushed to a Pulp at 0 HP
35(B). Locust Trap - No Save, No Attack Roll, just 44 (8d10) Piercing - Eaten to the Bone at 0 HP
43. Boar Head Trap - DC 16 WIS or Charm; Trap itself does 22 (4d10) Slashing - Decapitated at 0 HP
LEVEL FOUR
47(D). The Pit - DC 15 DEX or 132 (24d10) Force - Ground to a Pulp at 0 HP
54c. Acid Pool - Upon Entry or Start of Turn 66 (12d10) Acid - Not Insta-death but dmg/round on a downed character means death
57. Green Devil Face - DC 11 DEX (with reroll from party aid) or Pulled into Gullet and Death
LEVEL FIVE
67. Block of Stone - DC 15 DEX or 55 (10d10) Bludgeoning - Crushed to a Pulp at 0 HP
70. Armillary Sphere - 01-05 on the d100 Table for the Armillary Sphere. - Teleported out of the Tomb, so they're useless to the quest itself.[/SBLOCK]

Ideally, you want to televise that there are effects in the game which circumvent the usual death and dying rules before they get into the Tomb (e.g. yellow musk creeper is a good choice). Then you want to double down on that by foreshadowing that the Tomb is full of traps that circumvent the usual death and dying rules (e.g. hints among ruined bas reliefs in Omu is a good choice).

One of the failings of ToA is that there's insufficient foreshadowing of the Tomb, the traps within, its magical conditions, its creator, the atropal, and Acererak. Thus, it's up to the DM to (1st) understand the Tomb and how the traps work, then (2nd) find opportunities to foreshadow that information for the players.

 

[ccs]

One of the failings of ToA is that there's insufficient foreshadowing of the Tomb, the traps within, its magical conditions, its creator, the atropal, and Acererak. Thus, it's up to the DM to (1st) understand the Tomb and how the traps work, then (2nd) find opportunities to foreshadow that information for the players.

I think the 1st clue lies in the title.

 

[sim-h]

Yeah, this isn't really a great adventure for players who want a forgiving environment! Although the lead up to the Tomb is not so deadly of course. I did have to house rule a use of Shield spell to prevent an early death by firetrap in Camp Righteous...I still agonize over my weakness...

I've run about 12-15 sessions and the players are Level 5, about to arrive at Kir Sabal. Well, actually they are lost, but I'm so bored of them getting lost and plodding through random encounters I'm heading them on a tributary straight to Kir Sabal, unbeknownst to them and probably via Needle's Bones which will appear en route. When I started the adventure I vowed to play it straight with encounters and adventure locations. That was a mistake - I've since moved a couple of locations to get them en route, and will need to move Nangalore a bit closer to Kir Sabal to avoid boredom overload and time running out...

Anyway, when they get to the Tomb I'm just going to tell them straight. "You're going to die, and it's last man standing". We play in a pub and all but one of the players join me in getting fairly merry by the end of the session - so they've got no chance

If they don't make it, well we'll just move on to the next campaign!

 

[jasper]

Two choices. Don't play it. Or He is only mostly dead. This means if they die inside the tomb, they can never leave.

 

[Retreater]

Thanks for all the ideas so far. Initially I'll be allowing Medium DC saving throws when they're not normally allowed. When there's an effect that "If this reduces a character to 0 hp the character instantly dies" I'll instead have it reduce a character to dying with one auto failed death saving throw. Also to help players remember Inspiration, I'll award it every short or long rest.
Hopefully this will help.

 

[Larrin]

I'll instead have it reduce a character to dying with one auto failed death saving throw.

That is how I ran the tomb, actually I gave them 2 failed saves, and it was I think it was certainly still scary enough.

 

[Scott Nagel]

Quickleaf, that list is fantastic! I am going to keep it on hand when my party hits the tomb (they have just arrived at Omu and collected one puzzle cube).

After a scan of your list, I am thinking of another approach. Knowing my group, I am considering just telling them where the 'danger zone' is:
* there are deadly traps that insta-kill you if they take you to 0.
* if you are below 60 HP, you are in real danger of dying when you hit one of these traps.

I think this will create the desired sense of fear & paranoia, while minimizing the sense of unfairness--if they're traveling around at 25 HP, they are making a calculated risk and can't say they weren't warned.

A few more things to consider:
* I know they will want to hide out in their Leomund's Tiny Hut more, so I will need to be prepared for Withers to harass them as soon as they emerge;
* Although I normally roll behind the screen or take the average, I think in these cases i will amp up the drama by doing the insta-kill damage rolls out in front of everyone. This does introduce the possibility of killing a player who thinks he's out of danger, but the more dice, the closer the damage will stick to the average, and the increased danger will be offset by the sense of both drama and fairness.

I know that this sort of meta-gaming approach is not for everyone, but I think that it will appeal to my players.

 

[Quickleaf]

Quickleaf, that list is fantastic! I am going to keep it on hand when my party hits the tomb (they have just arrived at Omu and collected one puzzle cube).

One trap that I forgot to include – it's not strictly a save-or-die – is the magnet trap in Area 44. If players haven't lucked out with non-metal weapons/armor or made an effort to acquire non-metal weapons/armor (and why would they?), it can be a pretty devastating trap. I'm foreshadowing this in Omu with these giant ancient lodestones placed along some kind of "gauntlet of champions" which have lost most of their charge, and some bas reliefs depicting them being used as a magnet trap.

After a scan of your list, I am thinking of another approach. Knowing my group, I am considering just telling them where the 'danger zone' is:
* there are deadly traps that insta-kill you if they take you to 0.
* if you are below 60 HP, you are in real danger of dying when you hit one of these traps.

Yep, that's one way to handle it. My effort has been focused on tempering the dramatic tonal shift from challenging-but-not-deadly Jungle to oh-my-god-we're-all-gonna-die Tomb. There is a shift, but I'm trying to create a sense of build-up toward it.

A few more things to consider:
* I know they will want to hide out in their Leomund's Tiny Hut more, so I will need to be prepared for Withers to harass them as soon as they emerge;

Oh yeah, resting in the Tomb has a couple consequences. First off, there's the Sewn Sisters using Nightmare Haunting. Whether Leomund's tiny hut hedges out ethereal creatures is a matter of debate, but even if you take the position that it does, there's nothing stopping one of the Sewn Sisters from slipping close to the party in ethereal form, so that she is included in the area of effect of Leomund's tiny hut and then Nightmare Haunting away. Since there's no way to restore your hit point maximum what with the Death Curse, this should be terrifying and discourage long resting.

* Although I normally roll behind the screen or take the average, I think in these cases i will amp up the drama by doing the insta-kill damage rolls out in front of everyone. This does introduce the possibility of killing a player who thinks he's out of danger, but the more dice, the closer the damage will stick to the average, and the increased danger will be offset by the sense of both drama and fairness.

I've done most of my rolling where players can see. This works really well for an adventure like ToA where it's important that the players feel the challenge and sense of accomplishment when overcoming certain death.