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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoogleEmpMog" data-source="post: 3259204" data-attributes="member: 22882">Although I do agree any 'grant extra action' ability is potentially broken, your example doesn't demonstrate it.First of all, in the example you gave, you had a +50% strength party (bumping them to APL 18 at least) and one of them was a marshal.Also, with two fighters like the one in your writeup (each with a 120 damage first action) and a wizard casting an effective 51d6 empowered disintegrate (175 damage first action), you're already up to 415 damage with only three PCs.  Number four only has to chip in another 85 to drop a 500 hp monster in the first round. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Now, it's possible one or more of those characters could fail.  They aren't guaranteed a one-round kill by any means - but it's certainly the *likely* result of their attack.On the flip side, a CR 17 marilith and sufficient support to make the battle with her EL 21 can eat them for breakfast if played remotely intelligently.  A squad of 8 hezrou should more than suffice should solve either my fighters-and-wizzy attack or your ubercharge sword sage and friends, while still leaving Mari with an extra CR 19 chum to add to her retinue before it becomes EL 21.  What say we throw in a fiendish white dragon of the very old persuasion?  He even has the right alignment.  Mari can ride him (not like that...!  Although with how dragons and demons are in D&D... <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/paranoid.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":uhoh:" title="Paranoid    :uhoh:" data-shortname=":uhoh:" /> ) and be essentially un-charge-able.Heck, that squad wouldn't even have to be played intelligently.  Multiple DC 24 Fort saves for all involved courtesy of the piquant aroma of the hezrou (and, of course, GTAW so it's impossible to avoid) to avoid being far, far worse than stunned?  Nauseated PCs are essentially out of the battle, and even a save-focused arcanist will have a tough time making multiple DC 24 Fort saves.  The marilith is a melee beast, as is the dragon; care to place bets on how that pair, capable of choosing who to fight from among the handful of PCs not rolling on the ground puking their guts out, will fare two-on-one against a 17th level chatacter of any persuasion?(Oversized) party vs. one monster tells you nothing, because one monster will either kill or be killed in essentially no time at all.</blockquote>

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