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Message: <blockquote data-quote="brehobit" data-source="post: 3671619" data-attributes="member: 12032">As I've stated elsewhere, the Bo9S classes are very very powerful compared to fighters, barbarians, rangers and paladins until about 6th level.  They get a huge amount of power with the balancing factor that they only get a single attack.  Below 6th level pretty much all fighter types only get a single attack (or two-weapon attacks which are generally felt to be no stronger than a two-handed weapon) and so the balancing factor hasn't really hit.  The factor of not being proficient in ranged weapons can be a significant problem in some games (mostly outdoor games) but in those games a level of fighter or barbarian fixes the problem with very little pain.IME (I've run 2 games with Bo9S characters and played in another, all between levels 3 and 7) the Bo9S classes dominate the game and as a DM I had to find ways to balance that out so other fighter types felt useful.Most powerful things (at lower levels) that no one else has mentioned: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> +2d6 damage and ignore DR at 3rd level (This totally wipes some threats at lower levels.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> 6d6 fireball at 5th level in every single fight.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Ability to move through rough terrain and get a +2 bonus to attack those in it (I tend to use rough terrain a lot) starting at 1st level</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Ability to flank from any direction starting at 1st level (those +2s help a lot at lower levels)</li> </ul>Also, notice the warblade can get weapon mastery 1 level after the fighter (level 9), and with some work you can build a nearly "strike-free" warblade who, IMO, is a better full-attack fighter than a fighter, ranger, paladin or barbarian.  You keep one "charge" strike around and otherwise use boosts and counters.  Makes for a great tank, and weapon specialization and mastery can really help out here.  I've not seen that build in play, but it looks workable and fairly scary.One-level dips can be very powerful, and seem to be optimal around 9th level.  IMO, every non-caster sees a serious power-up by doing this (unless it triggers a multi-classing penalty).  A rogue going to level 9, for example, would be crazy not to take a level in sword sage just to get the +2d6 sneak attack if nothing else).  Heck, a bard should take a level of crusader or warblade.  With the feat gained at 9th level you get the ability to use inspire courage as a free action in addition to the other abilities, full BAB, and hit points.  Finally, realize that crusaders just don't go down.  Ever.  They aren't the best damage dealers (though they do okay) but they can "tank" extremely well.  I actually like this (TPK is much harder with a crusader in the party).  Things not to do:Don't power up these classes past RAW.  It gets tempting to let PrCs swap out manouvers at even levels, or reduce the prereqs on the master of nine, or let "on the ground" restrictions be largely ignored.  But you can't let that happen or things will get _really_ out of hand. Thing to do:Require, and I do mean _require_ that the ability cards on the WotC website be used.  Maybe my players suck, but keeping track of what manouvers you've selected, which ones you've used, which ones you've recovered, or even wtf the manouvers _do_ gets tricky.  The cards make it much better.  For a crusader they are 100% required to make game play even possible.  But for the others, I find it speeds things up a huge amount.  Highly highly recommended.    Mark</blockquote>

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